Niall Donald

Nobody could have guessed and

Of course, those rumours straight away went around.

It was straight away focused on the Hutch gang.

But at this time, if you remember, while there had been other incidents, for example, an attempted hit on Gerry Hutch in Lanzarote, those incidents weren't always public.

People were straight away thinking this isn't the type of normal organised crime operation.

They were looking at the weapons saying, is there a paramilitary organisation involved here?

And nobody knew fully.

And of course, people, what people did fear straight away was no matter what, people knew how big and how powerful the Kenyans had become and the likelihood of them not striking back was, it was inevitable that blood was going to flow.

If you came to the charity and you were in a position of hardship... Yes, these rent arrears or whatever.

Yes, so I might, you know, you might get a cheque of a thousand euros and your name would be on it.

So that's where the fraud arose, was not that, you know, he was putting that money into his account, but that he was paying, and it describes him as mostly South American men, this money, but that, you know, it wasn't for housing, let's put it that way.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's probably the least of his worries, to be honest.

But when you're involved in, when you're convicted of those sort of offences, which is a fraud on a company, you get an automatic disqualification, I suppose.

Yeah, I mean, he was a relatively young man getting that position in his 40s.

Yeah, and it's kind of, especially if you're there at a certain age, you might be considered to be on the road to the hall and...

And, you know, that you're a sort of bright young thing of the party.

Yes.

But yeah, it's a spectacular fall from grace.

Well, certainly, like he seems to, I mean, he absolutely not seems to.