Niall Ferguson

The language here matters a lot because if you can put it that way, then you haven't permanently ceded the land to Russia.

It's a temporary state of affairs and it recognizes roughly where the line of contact is.

So I think this is the only way the war can end well.

It can end really badly if we hold out for the perfect peace that will satisfy the men in Brussels and the...

in Berlin, if we hold out for a really good peace, we could end up with a Ukrainian defeat.

And that is a nightmare scenario for Europe, which is why I can't really understand the lack of realism here.

This is a time when you have to get... I just want to press pause because we have six more minutes and you've said a lot there.

Just under the auspices of realism, you don't worry that if Putin is allowed to quote-unquote claim a victory here and not

end this with something resembling a black eye, that all we're doing is scheduling with this peace the next war, that eventually it's the rest of Ukraine, Poland, Finland, If we did nothing after such a ceasefire or peace, then we only deserve another war.

But if you get the breathing space, you can start the reconstruction of Ukraine.

The Ukrainians are our military power.

Who's going to invest in a Ukraine where we feel like Russia is just going to rearm and then invade again?

I'll invest

ukraine they have the best best defense technology companies in the world we'll take their drones but will anyone invest in the civilian infrastructure thinking that russia is just going to rearm and take the rest in another war in five or seven years i've ever been to south korea so south korea is interesting because it's a complete heap of rubble in 1953 and it has a neighbor who is uh clearly as dangerous as neighbors get and yet here we are so uh

is one of the most prosperous cities.

So you think the West and the U.S.

might be willing to participate in that type of 55th parallel or whatever it's called that would guarantee some sort of security such that people would be willing to invest and Ukraine would have some sense of autonomy and self-governance?

And I've said from the outset, I've said it to President Zelensky, your best outcome is to be South Korea.

Your worst outcome is to be South Vietnam.

That is the nature of the relationship you have.