Niall Ferguson

And it doesn't appear there'd be a quote-unquote plan.

First barrel of the question.

Second...

My sense is that you see this as sort of like,

bumping up against the EU.

It's all, I won't call it good fun, but shouldn't be taken seriously, but not literally, or literally not seriously.

Whereas I see that our power has come from not being 25% of the world's GDP, but effectively being the leaders of an alliance that was 60 or 70%.

And then we're rupturing that alliance.

And ultimately we're gonna be much weaker and unable to promote Western values around the world.

Whereas my sense is you don't see the same level of rupture

that I see.

So let's start with Venezuela.

I'm more worried about the rest of the Bond film.

Tell me what you think the prospects are of a Venezuela post this unbelievable military operation.

And two, I would argue that this rupture or the spring of alliances is long-term very unhealthy for America and the West.

Neil.

Well, I think this was never intended in Venezuela to be regime change in the sense that there was regime change in Iraq in 2003.

And President Trump very deliberately said the other day, we aren't going to make the mistake they made then of entirely dismantling the regime and then seeing the country descend into chaos, a chaos that the U.S.

owned.

This is regime alteration.