Niccolo Mainoni

And remember, the state controlled much of the Italian economy. That was true all the way into the 90s. So there often was some hidden backstory, some reason why that executive friendly with that politician got that job. Given that context, Mario told me, in a way, teatrologia made sense.

And remember, the state controlled much of the Italian economy. That was true all the way into the 90s. So there often was some hidden backstory, some reason why that executive friendly with that politician got that job. Given that context, Mario told me, in a way, teatrologia made sense.

Yeah, but it helps me understand Italians a little better today, I guess is what I'm saying, if that makes sense. Not so much that I validate the process of dietrologia now, but it helps me understand people of my, let's say, my father's generation. Because they grew up in a world where, you know, like 40% of dietrologia was not dietrologia. It was just davantiologia. It was true.

Yeah, but it helps me understand Italians a little better today, I guess is what I'm saying, if that makes sense. Not so much that I validate the process of dietrologia now, but it helps me understand people of my, let's say, my father's generation. Because they grew up in a world where, you know, like 40% of dietrologia was not dietrologia. It was just davantiologia. It was true.

And that's kind of interesting. I didn't expect that to happen. And that's been very helpful to me. When stories that seem fantastical turn out to be true, it has a deep psychic impact on people. You start looking at other wild stories and wondering, could they also be true? I have to say this story has I always am afraid as an Italian abroad that Italians are too bombastic, not tied in fact.

And that's kind of interesting. I didn't expect that to happen. And that's been very helpful to me. When stories that seem fantastical turn out to be true, it has a deep psychic impact on people. You start looking at other wild stories and wondering, could they also be true? I have to say this story has I always am afraid as an Italian abroad that Italians are too bombastic, not tied in fact.

So I always try to overcorrect because Italians are seen as unreliable, kind of operatic. Learning about this story, it's helped me see A lot of, you know, Italy in the time you're describing was, not to be dramatic, it was a little bit of a war zone. I mean, there were bombs on trains. There were, they were called the years of lead.

So I always try to overcorrect because Italians are seen as unreliable, kind of operatic. Learning about this story, it's helped me see A lot of, you know, Italy in the time you're describing was, not to be dramatic, it was a little bit of a war zone. I mean, there were bombs on trains. There were, they were called the years of lead.

This far-left Marxist terrorist group kidnapped an American general in Italy in 1981 and held him captive for over a month. It was a huge story. But Mario just found out he went to high school with one of the alleged kidnappers. The point is, given the amount of violence in Italy at the time, personal connections like these were pretty common.

This far-left Marxist terrorist group kidnapped an American general in Italy in 1981 and held him captive for over a month. It was a huge story. But Mario just found out he went to high school with one of the alleged kidnappers. The point is, given the amount of violence in Italy at the time, personal connections like these were pretty common.

Living in that world was exhausting. But I understand the heterologia better now. It's an attempt to make sense of the world. A world where we don't always have all the information. A world where our search for answers can lead us to some very strange places. Sometimes the conspiracy theories stay theories, unproven or even disproved.

Living in that world was exhausting. But I understand the heterologia better now. It's an attempt to make sense of the world. A world where we don't always have all the information. A world where our search for answers can lead us to some very strange places. Sometimes the conspiracy theories stay theories, unproven or even disproved.

But sometimes when you peer behind the curtain, those stories, they end up being true. What story should I do next?

But sometimes when you peer behind the curtain, those stories, they end up being true. What story should I do next?

Shadow Kingdom is a production of Crooked Media and Campsite Media. It's hosted and reported by me, Niccolo Mainoni, with additional reporting by Simona Zecchi and Joe Hawthorne. The show is written by Joe Hawthorne, Ashley-Ann Krigbaum, and me. Joe Hawthorne is our lead producer, and Ashley-Ann Krigbaum is our managing producer. Tracy Samuelson is our story editor.

Shadow Kingdom is a production of Crooked Media and Campsite Media. It's hosted and reported by me, Niccolo Mainoni, with additional reporting by Simona Zecchi and Joe Hawthorne. The show is written by Joe Hawthorne, Ashley-Ann Krigbaum, and me. Joe Hawthorne is our lead producer, and Ashley-Ann Krigbaum is our managing producer. Tracy Samuelson is our story editor.

Sound design, mix, and mastering by Mark McAdam. Our theme song and original score are composed by me and Mark McAdam. Our studio engineer is Iwanlai Tramuen. Voice acting by Bonnie Biagini, Andrea Bianchi, Ferrante Cosma, Luca De Gennaro, Michele Teodori, and Mustafa Zialan. Field recording by Justin Trigger, Jonathan Zenti, Pete Shev, Jonathan Gruber, and Joanna Broder.

Sound design, mix, and mastering by Mark McAdam. Our theme song and original score are composed by me and Mark McAdam. Our studio engineer is Iwanlai Tramuen. Voice acting by Bonnie Biagini, Andrea Bianchi, Ferrante Cosma, Luca De Gennaro, Michele Teodori, and Mustafa Zialan. Field recording by Justin Trigger, Jonathan Zenti, Pete Shev, Jonathan Gruber, and Joanna Broder.

Fact-checking by Zoe Sullivan. Our executive producers are me, Niccolo Mainoni, along with Sarah Geismar, Katie Long, and Allison Falsetta from Crooked Media. Josh Dean, Adam Hoff, Matt Scher, and Vanessa Gregoriadis are the executive producers at Campside Media. We had additional help from Doug Slawin, Ashley Warren, Johnny Kaufman, and Anthony Puccillo.

Fact-checking by Zoe Sullivan. Our executive producers are me, Niccolo Mainoni, along with Sarah Geismar, Katie Long, and Allison Falsetta from Crooked Media. Josh Dean, Adam Hoff, Matt Scher, and Vanessa Gregoriadis are the executive producers at Campside Media. We had additional help from Doug Slawin, Ashley Warren, Johnny Kaufman, and Anthony Puccillo.