Nick Bare

Yes.

And there's an ask the question,

I mean, when I transitioned out of the military and I started building VPN, those first couple months and even years were easy from a leadership perspective because I didn't have many employees to lead.

And I didn't have to make many hard people decisions or have many hard conversations.

But when I had to start letting people go and having the hard conversations-

that's when it started getting challenging.

That's also where I started to really grow and develop as a leader.

Those conversations used to be very challenging and they're still difficult, but you become comfortable in the uncomfortable conversations because you know the growth that happens on the other side.

Absolutely.

How do you think, because I mean, I'm managing and running a company that has 45 people.

We're talking the military.

We're talking the army.

How many people are in the army?

So if I think of just like that multiple and the amount of leadership that has to be so effective and strong, how effective do you think the evaluation report process is

are those hard conversations being had or can they be better?

I was going to save this part of the conversation for later on, but I feel like this is a good segue talking about the tone range fan.

And we will link this article that you created within the show notes of this episode.

Awesome.

I think it's really powerful.

As I was telling you earlier, I'm currently reading The Energy Bus by John Gordon.