Nick Khan
Appearances
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Please.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
By the way, WrestleMania I was so big. You watched it, I assume, on closed circuit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah, I was closed circuit LA Sports Arena because at that time we were living in Los Angeles as kids.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
You know, look, the Hogan, Mr. T, with Snuka in the corner against Orndorff, Piper, and Bob Orton in the corner was huge. But that Andre the Giant moment, there's something about that. I think it was $15,000 body slam challenge or body slam match with John Studd. That felt big also.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
But by the way, think about it, like we would pay tickets to go watch TV in an arena.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
It's great. It's great now, but it was a blurry screen back then. Do you guys do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah, we have a lot of international watch parties with Netflix for the upcoming WrestleMania. We did deal with Cosm, if you know Cosm. Of course I don't. Right. Cosm is, it's sort of like a sphere-like bar and lounge. Okay. It's in a few select cities, including Los Angeles, Atlanta. WrestleMania will be there. It's already sold out, but it's a great viewing experience.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
So we do them, and we do them domestically as well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
A lot, a lot. By the way, it's a testament to you. It's a testament to Netflix to get that done. Obviously, in getting it done, the latter part, which you just referenced, was quite bumpy for everybody, but it got done, and it seemed to get quite high viewership numbers on Netflix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Well, look, episodes one through five, it was all fine. And then, you know, episode six obviously had a lot of, you know, tawdry allegations in there. So, you know, the most important thing at the company was, hey, this is not for us to spike it. That's not what the deal was. And the deal... That was struck with Netflix was prior to me joining WWE on a full time basis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
So it was sort of trying to help everyone stay calm who was watching it. And hey, we'll get through this thing and get to the other side of it, which hopefully, you know, now we are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
It went everywhere from, hey, it was phenomenally done like you did with Andre, the giant documentary on HBO Sports, to, oh my God, this thing, it's not true, it's not factual, this and that. There were people who loved it as an objectively told profile of a person and people who were close to the subject who didn't like it, which I understand and I would think you understand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
My compliments to you. There were a lot of bumps in there. There were a lot of... It was not easy. And you stayed steady. You got through it, as did Netflix. And here we are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Were you happy with the way the Celtics one turned out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Look, for whatever it's worth, I too thought it was phenomenal. I put it up there, and HBO Sports, as you know, you're one of the co-creators of 30 for 30, but HBO Sports was the sports documentary home for everything prior to 30 for 30. That bird versus magic. you know, documentary that Ezra did 10, 15 years ago, whatever that was 15.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
I thought that was the best basketball documentary I had seen. Excellent. I put this one up there with that. And I also loved once brothers. I'm not suggesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
I know you did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Loved it. I thought it was a deep emotional story, but the Celtics one, it was not told simply through the lens of a fan, which I think, I don't want to say was difficult for you. I wouldn't know that, but I know you're a huge Celtics fan. So to be able to tell the story objectively, you know, warts and all was impressive to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Totally. Look, it's sort of the same thing we try to do weekly with WWE. You're going to have the hardcore fans who watch, you know, no matter what, and they'll either love it, hate it, or they're somewhere in between. And then you try to broaden the audience, as I think, or at least I hope that we have over the last number of years, to get people like your son back into it. He's out again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
We gotta talk about this. Well, I thought he was coming to WrestleMania. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
We'll have to have a private conversation with you and me on the side with him at WrestleMania.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
He's above it now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
No one's too cool for wrestling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
I know I've mentioned it before, but WrestleMania, I think it was 2016 in Dallas. So your son would have been nine years. That was the wheelhouse.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
You were sending me videos from your hotel room of him doing, Ben, your son, doing all the wrestling moves on your guy's hotel bed. Now my son, who you know, Sonny, is nine. So I get to experience that firsthand in seeing him, my son, do all the things Ben was doing nine years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Well, by the way, there's a precursor to that conversation. He said to me, hey, if Bill Simmons asked me what's going to happen in Royal Rumble, do we trust him? Do we tell him? I said, we trust him, but we don't tell him. And he said, okay, then I'm going to tell him Cena's taking the whole thing. And I said, okay, great. He never said any of that, but I'm just kidding.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Listen, someone in this room, and to the listeners, there's only two of us in this room, told me years ago, hey, keep in mind, everybody tells somebody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
The Jacoby Trust Triangle. So we had to keep it tight that Cena was not winning the World Rumble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
So here's what I thought was interesting about that whole process. Number one, John Cena's merchandise still off the charts. Wow. Top of show at every event or almost every event. The sort of collective decision to make that heel turn. Yeah. Triple H, Cena, Dwayne Johnson, Cody, everyone immediately on board with the whole thing. Had they pushed Cena to do that before or no?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Not since I had been at WWE and not since Triple H had been in charge of creative. So I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, perhaps, but certainly not in the last five years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
As you know, one of the greatest heel turns in the history of wrestling. But as you just articulated, sort of had to be done. Cena on his final run with us, You even saw the fans prior to the heel turn, the ones who were saying Cena sucks and we love Cena. There was no more Cena sucks. It was 98% overwhelmingly positive reaction to John Cena for at least the last couple of years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
So to do it when, again, Triple H and Cena and everyone else decided to do it, I thought was phenomenally effective and really smart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah, look, it was also Rock showed up that night. Travis Scott with Jey Uso, if you remember him coming through the crowd, you know, doing sort of the yeet thing, you know, with Jey. I thought there were a number of moments that resonated. But yes, Cena sort of announcing that, It had been announced, but sort of physically announcing like, hey, this is it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
This year is going to be it, and you're not going to see me again in the WWE wrestling ring. You'll see him across our stuff well past the end of this year. But to turn, if that was January 6th, Elimination Chamber was March 1st, and that's when the big heel turn was. So over the course of seven weeks, massive, massive turn.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
I think, look, to me it always comes down to the talent and the creative. That's what drives WWE. So if you think about it, Roman Reigns went through some illness and came out on the other side of that positively. CM Punk had left the company as you know, 10 plus years ago, and it seemed like he would never return. He returns. Dwayne Johnson hadn't wrestled.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
He showed up at the SmackDown premiere on Fox if it was 2019, 2019 at what was the Staples Center, but he hadn't done anything long-term with us in a long time. Cody Rhodes had left to go elsewhere. And Seth Rollins sort of elevated himself on his own. Just a handful. Rhea Ripley, you know, pops. Liv Morgan comes along. So there's something definitely special going on with the talent right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
The bloodline, to your point, it goes up there with DX. It goes up there with the Four Horsemen. It goes up there with any of those great factions that you said, oh my God, this is special and you know it's not going to last forever. But as long as it did last, it was phenomenal, phenomenal content.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
NWO had what, 58 numbers? It became like the Soho House.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Full Soho house. Everybody's getting in. It's like, oh, there's Virgil. Scott Norton, Vincent, not Virgil in WCW, but yes. Yeah, that was pretty rough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
I think what's really amazing about Cody's story to me is he saw it before anyone else saw it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
And to ask to be let out of his WWE agreement, I guess it would be, you know, eight or nine years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Classic bet on yourself. And by the way, to your credit, you leave ESPN. You don't have to bring me into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
These things, when people bet on themselves and it works out, and as you know, it doesn't work out for a lot of people. There's a lot of people who asked out at WWE and you sort of never heard from them again. A lot of people who left ESPN, you may never have heard from them again. You went, you built something, you monetized it, and now we're doing the podcast from your home.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
You know, eyeball test here, 24 bedrooms, this house. So that's a nice accomplishment. And for Cody, back to Cody, you know, he leaves. He doesn't like the Stardust thing. He thinks he can do much more than that. He leaves. He hits the indie circuit. Like, so whatever he was making at WWE at that time, he left that guaranteed money to go on a night-by-night basis. He took a full bet on himself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
He went, he started part of another league. And then you sort of saw him fade out over there. And it's something that we talked about at WWE. It was like, well, this is interesting. It used to be, hey, this is about the wrestlers. This is about empowering the wrestlers. This is Cody's, one of the co-founders. And then that narrative shifted.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
And that's when we decided, when we knew contractually we could make the call, to make the call and say, hey, why don't we get together and have a conversation? The deal was done in minutes, and boom, he returned WrestleMania 2022 at AT&T Stadium just three years ago. And a year later was in the main event of WrestleMania 2023 at SoFi.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah, he doesn't talk a lot of shit in a negative way, which is something I admire about him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
You know this drill. I saw you do it at Grantland. I saw you do it when you replicated Grantland at the Ringer. Everyone knows who the founder is. You don't sit there saying, I this, I that, I this, I did Spotify, me, me, me, my, this. The people who do that, I've never really seen them succeed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
I feel like the actual leaders, they're the ones, they'll take credit when something's a disaster, which you should as the leader of a company. When something is success, give credit to everybody else. It doesn't matter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Babydoll, one of the all-time great characters in the modern history of the media business.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
What's going on? Everyone's friends all of a sudden. Do you miss that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Does Babydoll smoke at the Masters? It's like a chimney. That's amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Listen, I loved being an agent when I was an agent, but when I decided to stop doing that five years ago, that was the end of that for me. I have had the good fortune of sort of being a friend of court to a number of former clients if they need advice or want advice. Or just friends who may want advice from time to time. I'm always happy to get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
By the way, it was so obvious to me that he wasn't a cancer. I had, in having been an agent, assume I had dealt with some personalities that were not the easiest, you know, from time to time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
That's part of the job. I had always found him to be a gentleman. I always found him to be honest, responsive, and I felt if he was that way outside of the company, if given an opportunity to come back to the company, he would be that way. And he said that he would be, and he's been a gem to work with.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
I think there's a constant through line in a bill. I think for the supremely talented people, Punk, yourself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Sure. Yeah, two of the greats. Two of the greats. Thank you. Two of the greats, right? Yourself, Triple H. The biggest challenge is to deal with mid-level management.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah. Correct, right? You would, I think, refer to at one point as like the khaki brigade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Correct. Those are more the mid-level management.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
You were young and creative and had ideas. And many of them were great ideas. And when you come up against, no different than Phil, i.e. CM Punk. and you come up against sort of bad mid-level management, they can stifle creativity and stifle ideas. And when you're young and you've got a little bit of chip on your shoulder, which I think most people who end up successful do, it can be stifling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
It can cause a lot of anger.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
It's, by the way, think about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
When you say most people aren't great, it applies to every profession. Yeah. You know, servers in restaurants, executives at networks or buyers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
It applies to everything. I'm with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
All of those cliches apply. When you said you finally, like, my words, calmed down on it in your 40s, I'm sure, Phil, I'm sure Triple H, as you got older, you have children, you get married, you realize sort of the don't sweat the small stuff thing that maybe you may have sweated years ago, and it seemed once Phil and Triple H reconnected, In my brain, it was going to be magic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
And boom, he reappeared, or he surprised everyone at Survivor Series Chicago a year and a half or so ago, and it's been magic since.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
If the number one sport in the United States, as you know, is the National Football League, and they effort to have three-hour games and a three-and-a-half-hour Super Bowl, and yeah, of course, there can be overtime and longer games and all this stuff, then why shouldn't we effort to do the same? So, you know, seven hours, eight hours of wrestling of WWE in one night is a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
It's really hard. This is also our first one, at least in the last five years, that's not on Final Four weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Totally. Even, look, we've done the American only holiday weekends. If you think about it, 4th of July. Yeah. there's such a lack of sports on that people, and it's with no disrespect intended, will actually watch the Nathan hot dog eating contest. But why wouldn't we do a WWE event on that weekend? So we do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
And Labor Day weekend, even though there's early college football, why wouldn't we have a big, if people are like, oh, well, you can't get butts in seats. Well, sure you can internationally. It's obviously not a holiday there. And now that everyone can watch on their phone, It doesn't really matter what day it is as long as it's not a cluttered sports calendar.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
I think you saw college football get into a little bit of a mess with their playoff system going right around the NFL games and coming out at compelling NFL weekends. Hopefully they reconfigure that, but it's something we put a lot of time and effort into.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
It's tough, right? When it's fragmented. any of these sports. The NBA is not fragmented. There's a league, the NFL, WWE, we're not UFC, not fragmented. There's a league. It's what even on the boxing side caused such destruction for different, you know, sanctioning bodies, interim champion, who's actually the champ, all these different weight classes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
It's all chaos until there's sort of sent a central, you know, holding account or central boss, if you will, it's going to be tough to get any of that in line.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
By the way, look at what Dana and the Fertittas created. If you ask them, they'll tell you, we took everything we liked about boxing and incorporated that, and all of the other nonsense that we hated, we made sure to get rid of that. So even if you haven't watched for a moment and you order a pay-per-view, and you're like, oh, the number one contender's fighting the champion?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah, that makes sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah. Totally. They nailed it, and that's to their credit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
At all. One of the dilemmas in baseball, which was sort of fixed with the pitch clock, the pitch count clock, you didn't know in Los Angeles, if you went to a Dodger game, was it going to be a three-hour affair? Was it going to be a seven-hour affair?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Brutal. How do you go to a nighttime game on a weekday that starts at seven o'clock. Why would you even do that? It's so hard to get in and out of there. By the way, my first year as an agent, which was in 2006, somehow I met the Baseball Hall of Fame. I don't think we've ever talked about this story before. And that's Cooperstown and I went there and they said, we're not making a lot of money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
What do we need to do to fix this thing? I said, shut down this whole Cooperstown operation, move it to Vegas. Never heard from them again. Never heard from them again. But to me, it was like that was what they should have considered if they wanted it to be a year-round engagement. But again, that's the way they had always done it and that's the way they wanted to keep it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Fun. Yeah. By the way, travel it. Do something with it. Yeah. But don't do what you're currently doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
But it's happening this Friday. By the way, see, you disrespect Triple H. Triple H is being, oh, the brick and mortar Hall of Fame, you're saying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Who's your Mount Rushmore for wrestling?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
We can bring him in, whatever you want to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
No Austin for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Yeah. It was a shorter run.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Flair Hogan, for sure. Yeah. And then as you just sort of articulated in a different way, the final two are tough. Cena deserves some sort of recognition. You're talking about a 20-year run. Yeah. What Roman's done the last couple of years.
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Tremendous. And then you think back, you know, Sam Martino was just before me, but you would read in Pro Wrestling Illustrated, oh, he held the championship for this period of time. And superstar Billy Graham came along and this and that. But definitely Flair and Hogan. I would put Austin somewhere around there just because of the impact he had.
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I think if I'm remembering correctly, he retired at like 39, right? with injury and all of those things. Rock left early to go pursue a different career and was doing movies like The Tooth Fairy and was in the Get Shorty sequel, played like a butler.
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Totally.
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Oh my God. That was tremendous.
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And by the way, Rock obviously went on to monumental success once he left.
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can't miss TV and you think about it, you had Austin, Hogan, Rock, Triple H, DX, Mick Foley, and oh yeah, you had Undertaker, Kane, and all those other guys as well. Just an amazing, amazing bench that all hit at once.
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He was the precursor. So when everyone says, well, Tony Soprano was the first anti-hero that you rooted for.
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Correct. It was Stone Cold that shows you WWE was ahead of the game. And sometimes, you know, Paul Levesque and I will sort of... you know, semi joke, like life is WWE, WWE is life. It's our product is great when it's reflective of the times, which you just articulated through Hogan and the Reagan, you know, era with Arnold and sly and all that. And then in the Clinton era, uh,
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with the proliferation of cable news and information and what was going on in the White House at the time and the Jerry Springer show and this then people, there was more of a populist movement where people who hadn't had a voice before were starting to have a voice. And I think to your point, DX and Stone Cold both reflected that.
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But it was interesting because two weeks after two weeks, give or take after the Netflix Raw Intuit Dome premiere, you and I were both at the UFC fight at the Intuit Dome in the heart of L.A., you and me there. And it's as many, you know, L.A. is probably as left as it gets at this moment in time. Place was sold out. And remember, the main event fell apart a couple days beforehand.
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Boom, Dana and the UFC moved quickly. They put in another opponent. No one asked for a refund. Packed house, huge crowd, huge gate. I think their product appeals to everybody, just like the WWE product appeals to everybody. It just happens to be that the CEO of UFC is a close friend of the president.
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By the way, that's how Los Angeles used to be. Right. It used to be, if you've been married 10 times, don't worry about it. Move here.
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Correct. Who was the producer on Karate Kid, Weintraub? Oh, yeah. Who had like two wives or something like that.
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Yeah, but I think this guy in particular, there was an HBO documentary on him. He had like two wives at once. Wow. Not like, hey, get divorced and this. And by the way, it was like, hey, that's your life. Right. And I still feel that way. We don't judge. I have nothing to do with that. You have nothing to do with me. Live your life. Yeah. And somehow LA shifted a little bit outside of that.
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I think UFC stayed consistent. If you like our product, we want you. And that seems to be a good winning hand.
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And PBR and IMG. PBR is professional bull riding. IMG and on location.
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Well, I think you caught the announcement. Dana, myself, our partners, Turkey, I'll Shake, to create a new boxing promotional company a couple of months ago. I did. Yes.
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No, nothing to be acquired. We're going to grow it organically. But I'd look for, if we're mid-April now, I'd look for a big announcement on that in the next four to six weeks as to what our first card's going to be and who's going to be on that card.
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No, we want it to be UFC and WWE-like. But you'll see an announcement with more to come. I don't mean to intentionally be cryptic on the whole thing. You can be as cryptic as you want. But we have a plan.
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That's the thought. That's the hope. We'll see.
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I think, look, other than cohesion. Yeah, exactly. It's been proven, you know, with the UFC, people like to see a good fight. They just have to know, as with the UFC, who the fighters are. It's the same with WWE.
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If you get invested in the fighters in UFC, which they've done a phenomenal job of doing, UFC has, if you get invested in the wrestlers in WWE, more likely you tune in, more likely you show up. It's the same thing in boxing. If, you know, Max Kellerman, who you and I have both known for a long time,
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He used to say, if you pull up to a four-way stop sign, on one corner, a guy's putting a golf ball, the other guy's throwing a football, the other guy's shooting a basketball, and the other two guys are fighting. What are you going to watch? You're going to watch the two guys fighting.
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He said, but the problem with boxing is you pull up to that same corner and it's Tiger Woods in his prime putting the golf ball and it's Jordan in his prime shooting the basketball and it's Mahomes throwing the football and it's two guys you've never heard of fighting. then it's a different choice. That's the issue with boxing.
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It's a series of one-off events where as soon as the fight ends, Dana White says it often, it's a going out of business sale. Let's charge you the most we can for one night. Let's give you the least in return. No good undercard fights. No reason to sit in your seat. other than 10 minutes prior to the main event.
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And hey, if the main event's bad, then if you feel that we stole your money at home on pay-per-view, no big deal, that's on you. If you do it the opposite way of all of that, then you have a chance of actually building a product that has some sort of viability.
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You're sad Bacoli got knocked out.
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And, you know, we escaped. Now, here's the good thing about what Turkey is doing there. He's bringing Bacoli back. Yeah. Right? That's what you should do. If you step in on a fight on short notice and you lose the fight, give the guy another chance. You don't have to be 30-0 for it to matter. Right. Well, that's what we grew up with. Of course. Everyone fought everybody.
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You and I didn't know Marvin Hagler as the WBA middleweight champion. We knew him as the middleweight champion. And he fought Hearns. And he fought Durant. And he fought Leonard. And he fought some of them again. And the best fought the best. It's the same with Ali Foreman Frazier.
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Everybody. He fought Ali three times. Think about that. By the way, he also fought... It was Foreman Lyle and then Foreman Norton? Or was it Cooney-Norton, where Cooney destroyed Norton? That was the end of Norton. That was the end of Norton.
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And those are all heavyweights, obviously. Not the Hagler group, but the other group we're talking about. Like, just have the best fight the best. It's that simple. It's what the Saudis have done. It's what the UFC and Dana White have done. If it can be replicated in boxing, hey, you have a winning hand.
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Number one, their default is yes on anything that you ask for. It's, yeah, sure, we'll get on it right away. I always say this about the executives I like the most. I don't have any of their office numbers. You call them cell to cell. It's sort of like with you. I call you, hey, I'll call you right back or give me an hour. You pick up and we have the conversation.
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Do you even have an office number? No. Yeah, same. I don't have one. So they're phenomenal. It's also their power of their brand. And I know this is going to sound really naive. I didn't realize globally that it's the same interface that it is at home. So you know, sometimes if you travel internationally, you're like, where do I find the NBA game? And you're looking and you can't find it.
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It's the same avatar that you have at home and your kid's avatar and your wife's avatar and you click into it and it shows you, hey, here's where you paused and watching all the other things. It's the same exact interface. So I like the user accessibility. We certainly love 300 million plus subscribers. That's just households, by the way.
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So assume that's 700 million plus people and you've seen our international ratings go through the roof in a number of different countries because, again, easily accessible.
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I'm always pleasantly surprised by that. I was surprised by that. Here's what I said. I feel like in anything, in your business, in our business, like the clock resets at midnight for a reason. You know, no matter how good or how bad the day was, the day's over. And you have to go and replicate it again and try to build something even bigger the next week or the next show.
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It's the same for you in what you do. Same for us. So, you know, we're proud of that. But every week we're sort of anxious to make sure that it stays that way.
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Yeah, look, it's part of our recruiting for the last year or so. It's, you know, you can't just pipe out American content globally and internationally. So, you know, if you look at Axiom, who's on the NXT roster, he's a Spaniard born in Spain. When he showed up at our show in Barcelona unexpectedly two, three, four weeks ago, whatever it was, crowd went crazy.
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People like their own, and that's good. Even if you look at the collaboration we're doing with TNA and Joe Hendry, he shows up at our Glasgow show. People love that. Obviously, Drew McIntyre, main roster for us on the Glasgow show. People love that. So it's the unique aspect about WWE is is for our talent, it's as much about marketability as it is ability.
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If you're marketable and you have charisma and you have the it factor, we can sort of help with the rest. And then yes, every so often, you'll get someone who has both, John Cena, Roman Reigns, other folks.
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Yeah, look, the height of what can work, and this is the obvious one, when you had Bret Hart and Owen Rest in Peace and the faction with British Bulldog and all of that, and you would see even the Montreal Screwjob, if you will, that was in Canada.
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it's unbelievable that that happened yeah unbelievable where brett was and is a hero and at that time even if he was sort of perceived as the heel in the united states you know hey i look down on what wrestling has become which was all part of his character you know at that exact moment in that exact city just phenomenal phenomenal content
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Throw Mexico in there.
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Those would be your three. For sure.
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Hit Bill on Instagram or Twitter, whatever it is, since I'm not on any of those platforms, and send your audition tape to him and he'll get them to us.
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Stay off social media.
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So our deal with Peacock is coming up in 11 months. They've been phenomenal partners. Again, WWE, as you know, was on what were called pay-per-views, became premium live events. They were on WWE Network until 2020 when we did the deal with Peacock.
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A bunch. They've outperformed our expectations. We'd like to think we've outperformed their expectations. And now we'll sit down together and see if there's business to be done moving forward.
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Well, look, we love YouTube. We have 110 million subscribers. Oh, my gosh. 10th most subscribed to YouTube channel. That's not sports channel. Yeah. That's channel. So you have, you know, ahead of it, you know, Coco Melon, Mr. Beast, some Indian music channels, but nothing sports oriented. Right. So we're number 10 there, which is phenomenal. We're also on CW, which is a broadcast network.
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We're also on USA Basic Cable in the United States. We're on Netflix streaming globally. We're on Peacock streaming domestically. We want our product to be available to everyone everywhere, depending on how they like to receive it.
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It was in 2014. Yeah. 11 years ago.
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Totally, look at it. First of all, in 2014, when WWE went to WWE Network, which, just so we're clear, obviously I had nothing to do with. Yeah, you were. And that was a brilliant, brilliant decision. The biggest scam that I've ever seen in television was the fee that In Demand, Dish, and Direct would take for pay-per-view.
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So just to plug you in anywhere from 30 to 60% of a WWE event, of a boxing event, of UFC at that time. And then WWE got out of that business. And UFC got out of that business and took it exclusively to Disney. It was an all-time big.
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30% on apps. The number one big person. These guys were taking a vigorous 50 to 60%. Oh yeah, they were 50-50. Yeah, at least. And in demand was all the cable companies together. It was like a legal consortium that would just come down on you. And if you said, no, I don't want to do it at that fee, great.
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Totally. Totally. So streaming also fixed that. And it got you out of the volatility of, well, what pay-per-view numbers are we going to do this weekend? What are we going to do this weekend? What are we going to do this weekend? So you knew with consistent subscribership, you could actually plan for a publicly traded company on what financials would be coming in.
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Well, look, we're always the underdog at WWE. We always feel that people underestimate us, that we're looked down upon, and we like it that way. Bet against us. We prefer that. And allow us to show you what we can do. Short our stock. Go ahead. I don't know about that. You can literally do it. Go ahead. Bet against us. Bet against us.
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You know, if you look at the stock price now, it's far in excess of what it was when we all started together five years ago. Yeah. And, you know, we're quite proud of that. At the same time, we got to keep you know, re-earning our keep on a daily basis here.
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So we feel like it's a good moment, but we still feel like there's a lot of room for growth in terms of the other wrestling promotional company. They have a lot of talented wrestlers and we're happy about that.
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When contractually, you know, they're available to be, you know, talked to and have conversations with, assume a number of them will come over and nothing but respect for the father who finances it and owns the Jaguars and all those other things. That was very pleasant.
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That's it.
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I'm 50 now. So different than when we were much younger. Yes.
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Look, that's something we won't do. Yeah. We won't sign.
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Perhaps. But we won't sign and bench people. You know, we sign people who we want to use.
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I'm saying if another entity signs and benches people now, like that's not something we would do.
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That's what I've been told from time to time.
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I think, look, Netflix was saying years ago, we're not going to get in sports. We're not going to get in live. And I think anyone who was following it, who had a reasonable point of view, knew that was just a temporary position. And obviously, Netflix knew that. They went in with the unscripted shows, the after shows live. They went in with the Chris Rock comedy special live.
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And I think they saw the power of it. So much so that when Gabe Spitzer got hired to run sports, I don't know that they had any sports rights. And all of a sudden they wake up with the Mike Tyson fight and WWE and NFL games and their own hot dog eating contest. And hey, more and more is coming. And that's my understanding. So immediately overnight, they become an impact player.
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I thought they did a phenomenal job with even with the halftime show for the two NFL games. They go all in. It's one of their superpowers. And Amazon does the same. Totally. And you saw Amazon again, this sort of a tease. Amazon went into tennis in the UK and parts of Europe early. Yeah. Let's see if we can do it. Let's see what it looks like.
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And then boom, hey, we're going all in with the NFL and then boom, the big NBA deal. So you're seeing, you know, the power of live, you know, the power of sports. You're at the top of the heap in the media business in terms of your knowledge about all of that. What happens when more folks get into it? You saw YouTube with their Sunday ticket deal.
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So I think for the traditional buyers, they need to run smart businesses. At the same time, they have to be competitive. And they can't expect that, hey, you know, years of doing it one way. Well, this is how we've always done it, as you said earlier, you know, here today. So we've always done it. Why would we do it any differently? If the universe has changed, you better change with it.
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If not, you're going to be left behind. So we'll see who gets left behind.
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Well, think about it. HBO Sports years ago... That's the biggest mess. Yeah. Ari Emanuel set up a meeting for Dana White and the UFC with HBO Sports when HBO Boxing was still booming. And for whatever reason, I think it was ultimately the UFC's decision not to go there. UFC... It was... HBO wanted to produce the events. Dana wanted to make sure he controlled his own production.
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The deal didn't make. And you've seen what the UFC has gone on to do. HBO Sports doesn't exist anymore. So at one point, as you know, they had Wimbledon years ago and I think other tennis tournaments. Then the Kings of Boxing.
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Correct. And then I think they sort of got comfortable. And by the way, if you ask the folks at the NFL, some of the folks at the NFL right now, what's your biggest concern? They'll quietly tell you to make sure that we never think like Major League Baseball thought in the 70s, which is, hey, we're the number one sport. Right. So. Lucky us. It's sort of what do we keep needing?
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What do we have to do to make sure that we stay number one? And like you said, hey, there's an 18th game coming. And hey, let's take the combine out of Indianapolis. And hey, in Philly for the first time, six, seven, eight years ago, whatever it was, let's take the draft on the road and let's monetize that. Everything they do is constantly evolving that product.
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I think it's the same thing with the UFC and their business model. I hope that WWE is perceived in the same light. Sometimes if we get it wrong, if Triple H and I talk or Lee Fitting or Chris Legental, other senior executives at WWE, it'll start with, hey, I think we fucked this thing up. It'll be one of us saying that. And then, okay, how do we fix it moving forward?
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And the most important thing is to identify the problem and realize you have a problem. If you're trying to avoid it or you're trying to say it's someone else's problem. By the way, much like the last presidential election, and you and I are not overtly political, but what I saw was one person saying, I'm going to take care of you. I'm going to look out for you.
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And another party saying, don't vote for this guy. Right, and with no message at all. I've just never seen that work. Yeah. I don't believe... Vote for us because you can't vote for him. Absurd. Like, how do you make that decision? You and running the ringer, when you bring talent over here, it's let me tell you what we can do together. It's the same thing at WWE.
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It's not, don't go with the other guys. Maybe it works on one or two deals, but it doesn't work long term. You got to figure out what that problem is and change the messaging.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Look, I think it still continues to exist in a meaningful way. The sub loss has obviously hit them hard, but I think they've actually made some good moves with a lower subscription audience. So as you said, they fixed their NFL talent issue. They fixed their NFL relationship. At least that's my perception.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. And look, they went in on retaining their NBA rights, the finals being quite meaningful to them. They don't have their first Super Bowl, if I might add.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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A lot of college football, right? They went all in on the SEC. They went all in on the playoff and the championship. They went all in on certain talent, as you just articulated. And hey, it's sort of reflective of the U.S. economy, if you will, relatively speaking. The middle class there got squeezed. The people making a lot of money made more money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And hey, if you want to make entry-level money, there'll be a spot for you. Again, relatively speaking, reflective of the U.S. economy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Look, I think as soon as budgets shrink, those tend to be the first things to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It could be that, or it could simply be, you know, Hey, we had a hundred million subs at one point. What is it now? 54 or 55. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. But as soon as the bundle went away and people actually, you know, had a choice in terms of what they could subscribe to. I don't think it's a reflection on ESPN. I think it's, It was bundled in and people sort of had to have it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And when they didn't have to have it, the people who still wanted it kept it. So if you're dealing with smaller numbers, those then tend to be the things that go first. If you have a surplus year, you got to be careful because next year may not be as good. For this WrestleMania coming up, coming off of the success of WrestleMania Philly 2024, we have WWE World, a partnership with Fanatics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, all-day event, the two-night WrestleMania, which we talked about already. We have SmackDown on Friday. We have Raw on Monday. We have the Hall of Fame standalone show Friday night after SmackDown. We have the Undertaker one-dead-man show, this sort of one-man show, if you will. Jesus. Right? After... WrestleMania Saturday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then we have Tony Hinchcliffe roast of WrestleMania after WrestleMania Sunday. And then, by the way, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, we also have an after party with our partners Medium Rare at the Fountain Blue. You'll see WWE stars there. You'll see other celebrities there. It's all day, all night. That's coming off of the success. We think all of these will be successful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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All indicators are they're going to be hopefully phenomenally successful. And then next year, we got to go build something bigger. That's just the way it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Look, I remember the FS1 thing. ESPN was so dominant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Those were the clients. Those were the clients who made a lot of money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Listen, I was just right place, right time. What can I say? But ESPN was so dominant that it was, okay, we're going to keep our 11 o'clock SportsCenter and we're going to bring back Keith Olbermann to put him on ESPN2 to make sure just in case you're thinking, I don't want to watch SportsCenter. We have something else to offer for you. And oh yeah, we got Grantland Programming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And what was the name of your unsanctioned NBA show? The Great Basketball Show? The Grantland Basketball Show. The Grantland Basketball Show. We did 10. Right. So it was like even unsanctioned. We're going to have, you know, high end content here. And again, that I would say the first 50, 30 for 30s, if you will, like amazing, shockingly, like just the quality off the charts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then over time, like there were only so many. We had some stinkers to be fair. Early on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Maybe the Colts one wasn't as good as some of the other ones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'm just saying. I thought you winked at me and said, let's name names.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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How about when you have to spike the Marion Jones one? No one talks about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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What do you mean the WB?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yes. I read it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think like any company, you know, maybe they made a couple mistakes, you know, here and there. But I think they now see that. And if they can figure out, okay, what's the programming to bring in post-NBA, that it's tough, right, when there's so many mouths to feed. TNT, TBS, Max, HBO, oh, TruTV, oh, this, oh, that. Like, it's a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And those are still generating revenue, so you think to yourself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Dr. Pimple Poffer, I don't remember which one that was. Yeah, but I still have DirecTV, so I see it on the grid, you know. You still have DirecTV? Yeah. Who do you call when something goes wrong? It's brutal. Do they even have people working? Listen, it's brutal. I tried to order the Terrence Crawford, Errol Spence boxing match off of DirecTV. They said I was at my pay-per-view limit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I called someone, spoke to someone overseas. I said, what are you talking about pay-per-view limit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'm Am I up to date on my bill? Yes. Then how is there a limit? And what am I ordering on pay-per-view that would put me past that limit? There's no UFC on DirecTV pay-per-view. There's no WWE. It's a mess, but I still have it. And YouTube TV and Apple TV.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So we connected on me coming on your podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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What if you said to me, show up somewhere between 8 a.m. and noon, And, you know, hopefully I'll be there, which is what the cable companies and DirecTV said. They'd give you this window. 8 at noon. How about like 8 to 3? And at 11.59, you'd call and be like, hey, my guy hasn't shown up yet. Like, what's going on? Oh, we're so sorry. We have to reschedule for 10 days from now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You wouldn't allow your doctor to do that. You wouldn't allow your accountant to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, by the way, again, like the in-demand dish direct VIG that we were talking about. Football. Too much hubris, too much arrogance with their product. Because they have football. They felt like they could do anything they wanted. Correct. Instead of, by the way, as you know, it was a big brag in like 2000, 2001. If you had direct TV, you were like, you were the guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't have cable. I got satellite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And they took full advantage of the consumer, as did the cable companies, the traditional cable companies. We'll be there between eight and noon. We'll be there between noon and five. Like, it was a joke. The whole thing was a joke. And then, hey, someone came along with a better product and, you know, ate part of their lunch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I would say 60% chance insider, 40% chance outsider.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Also very rich like you now, Matt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, he's a scripted actor now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, think about his career arc. You remember when they split, what was it, Netflix and Quickster? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Almost ended his career. But then quickly they realized, like we were talking about, no, we made a mistake here. We better change this and we better shut that down and we better hyper focus on the fact that people aren't going to be really renting DVDs for that much longer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And they nailed it. And then early on. OK, let's put on the Kevin Spacey show and Orange is a New Black. Let's cater towards, you know, the critics, if you will.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Sarandos came out and said, we need to be HBO before HBO becomes us, which he corrected six, nine months ago in the New York Times Q&A, where he said, what I should have said was, we need to become HBO, CBS, the BBC, and all of these other things before they all become us. And to his credit and Netflix's credit, they did do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's something for everybody there globally, not just domestically. So when you turn it on, you're like another Menendez Brothers documentary. Yeah, people watch it. They also realize, I've always thought a lot of people lie about their taste in things. Even if it's anonymous polling, people lie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think to me that the first sign I saw, you remember like in the late 90s, early 2000s, the radio ratings were done off writing it down in a notebook, what you listen to. So you'd see classical music on FM radio, smart talk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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on FM radio, and as soon as the rating metric shifted to the PPM, the portable people meters, and they could actually tell what people were listening to, no one was listening to classical music. No one was listening to smart talk. But when you're put on the spot of like, hey, Bill, do you like smart talk? What are you supposed to say? No, I like dumb talk. Oh, yeah, of course I like smart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Do you like classical music? Yeah, I love classical music. Netflix realizes people like all kinds of programming. I think Bravo realized it years ago also with the Housewives franchise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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By the way, think about Jersey Shore. It's first season. People not in LA. LA, you could always say what you're watching. There's no such thing to me as a guilty pleasure. If you like something, like it. But in other parts of the country where that kind of programming is looked down upon, people are like, oh yeah, I watch Jersey Shore. I just don't admit it. In LA, you admit it. It was great TV.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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She's a blogger and she disappeared and her boyfriend might've done it. Great. I'm in. I'm in. How about Netflix did another OJ documentary? Yeah. They're just running back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They got to come back. Bundy is a sitcom. By the way, how about the Dahmer scripted series? Yeah, we're back. Tough to watch on an airplane. They brought back Manson. Tough to watch Dahmer on an airplane. The hooking up with the mannequin thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Did you like the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood Manson storyline? I love that movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Love. I feel like people didn't love it the way I thought they should have loved it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just read that the other day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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When was the last time he wrote a movie that he didn't direct? True Romance or something after that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just watched True Romance with our 13-year-old daughter for the first time. Oh, Jesus. We skipped a couple of the early scenes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The early Gary Oldman stuff, you got to skip a little bit. But after that, even the Christopher Walken, Dennis Hopper scene, you can watch it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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With your kids, it's no problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Pretty brutal. It's a great movie, though. Amazing, amazing casting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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What's gonna happen in Cena, Cody? Where does that go?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think it's very close with Roman Punk and Seth, because with Roman Punk and Seth, there's an argument that's to be made as to why each person should win. And, you know, do you see Roman getting pinned when he got pinned last year by Cody? You know, how's that going to turn out? Roman's still at his peak. He's not on the back nine, not even close to it from our point of view. How old is he now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh, wow. Yeah, he's got at least five...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He takes phenomenal care of himself. It's sort of like the Floyd Mayweather thing. Floyd never got fat, never drank, you know, always kept himself ready to go, which I always respected. Roman, Cody, these guys who keep themselves in that top sort of physical shape. eating almonds. Amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But the baseball people, and I'm not a huge baseball guy, would tell me, hey, the stats show you past the age of 39, that's the furthest you can go as a prime athlete before the drop. And then you see Tom Brady and what he did and the time he put into maintaining where he was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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By the way, we got lucky with this Golden State loss the other day. So WWE WrestleMania does not go up against Lakers Golden State this Saturday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, I'm glad you're going to be there. Who wins the NBA Finals this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Is Celtics, Lakers still the best, the highest rated?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was looking at the matchup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Lakers make it to the championship? No. Who makes it from the West?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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How about Clippers with the hot hand late?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Curry Survives, Trae Melts Down, and Ant’s Crazy Shooting with Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, WWE President Nick Khan Stops by
Who's the best player in the league right now? You know basketball, obviously, far better. Can't be stopped. Jokic is the best. And not afraid of anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Thanks for coming over. Thanks for having me on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I love this mansion. This is at least 45,000 square feet minimum. That's my take. Thank you for having me. Always good seeing you. Appreciate it.