Nick McKenzie

It is, according to Watson, allegedly, and again under the protection of this commission of inquiry, it's basically a Martha-style extortion rule.

Now, that's not proven.

Gatto absolutely says it's false and no evidence has come out to substantiate it.

But what we do know is this, there are many companies, this is a fact, paying Gatto a fortune for their right to operate in the building sector across Australia.

And the question remains, why?

It was just a classic Gatto doing his business how he does his business.

He was calling up a developer.

He'd been hired to mediate or intervene in a dispute.

And what Gatto says on this tape, he says it carefully, but there is an unmistakable air of menace.

What he's saying is I can stop building sites from operating as they should, costing you a hell of a lot of money, effectively, is what I think that means.

Now, again, I'm not saying that's a direct threat.

I'm not saying it's unlawful.

The developer in question actually spoke out and said, basically, why should we involve a gangland figure in a commercial dispute in a building site?

No, thank you.

But also what we know is the builder at Hyde Gatto did pay Mick Gatto a significant amount of money to intervene.

And this is the way the building industry has worked.

And unfortunately, it's the way the building industry still works.

I've dealt with Mick Gatto a number of times.

I call him as a reporter.

I have to put questions to him.