Nicole Perlroth

speaker

1,851 appearances 14 recordings 2 series first heard Mar 2025 last heard 14 Jul

Nicole Perlroth’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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recordings per month · last 12 months

Recordings per month over the last 12 months — 3 in all, peaking in Jul 2026 with 2.

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To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll · Ep. 6: The North Korea Model · 14 Jul 2026 podcast

I don't know if they are telling themselves a story that they are running a legitimate business or they just don't care.

It was a shock that this is North Korea.

And I mean, they are everywhere.

I'm Nicole Perleroth, and this is To Catch a Thief.

Over the course of this season, we've watched North Korea infiltrate companies, steal cryptocurrency, and build one of the most sophisticated sanctions evasion operations on Earth.

But money was never the end goal.

It was just a means to an end.

And to understand that end, I turned to someone who's been studying North Korea's endgame closer than almost anyone.

I'm David Sanger.

I'm a White House and national security correspondent for The New York Times.

David's a good friend, and for a decade, he was my reporting partner at The New York Times.

Together, we covered some of the biggest national security stories of our generation, from cyber operations by China, Russia, Iran, and the United States, to North Korea's attacks on Sony and beyond.

And while I was focused on the cyber of it all, David was tracking the other half of the story, North Korea's accelerating nuclear program and Kim Jong-un himself.

Well, Nicole, it's been pretty remarkable when you think about the fact that when Kim Jong-un came in, the CIA assessments were asking questions like, could this guy last six months?

Could he last a year?

Will the old generals and elders kill him?

or will they just exile him?

And the first thing he did was consolidate power with a speed that shocked everybody.

It appears Kim Jong-un has purged some of his father's generals.

Vice Marshal Ri Yong-ho was often seen alongside the new leader and then mysteriously fired from all his duties in July of 2012.

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