Nicolle Wallace

I mean, there's so many layers of what I think audiences recoil from.

Some of it is just story selection.

I always thought...

when I worked in politics, that the power of Fox wasn't any individual anchor.

It was the rundowns they created.

And I still think that story selection is the most power we have, what you decide to shine a light on, especially now in the second Trump term.

But the language is maybe the second most important thing, how we talk about them.

And I wonder if you can just talk a little bit more on what you see and what you cover in terms of self-censorship.

And why is that?

Why were we not trained?

I mean, because I think that's how 2016 surprises everybody, right?

My job in 2016 was for NBC, the network, kind of out there talking to voters.

And there was a lot of interest in Trump that a lot of people missed.

There was a lot of sort of hangover from his celebrity as The Apprentice that a lot of political journalists miss.

But how are we still missing it?

With that stipulated, I'll throw in with not always knowing what to make of it.

I mean, I would nod to their outsized power in our politics and also feeling disoriented in terms of how to cover their intramural fighting.

But we are having this conversation at a moment of peak civil war within the MAGA media universe.

And I wonder if you could just take me through, I mean, there's

There's Megyn Kelly calling out Fox, using words that I might have once used, calling them, quote, cheerleaders.