Nikki Verda
Appearances
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
2024 revolutionized the music industry, from breakthrough new artists who had been crafting and practicing for 10 years to some of the biggest in the industry who have had record-breaking sales. I mean, we even saw our new emerging artists who had had a number one song breaking records on Billboard charts.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Yes. But I think that was a result, not the intention.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But that is also an inevitability of just like success. You know what I mean? Like once you get to a certain level, people just, well, saying whatever, blah, blah, blah. And like it, whatever. And that's fine. Also, I think like weirdly artists get in their own head about that. There was this really good quote. God, I can't fucking remember it now, but it's so applicable to this. It was like...
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
don't spend your time being niche waste, like pining to be something bigger because once you get bigger, you can never go back to being niche. Something like that. And I was like, Oh, that's like a really interesting thing. You know what I mean? Like this idea.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Pining over getting bigger. Oh yeah. Like people in these, like that have like these really like small, like niche, like cult, like fandoms, um, you know, always pine for like greater appreciation or like the scale that they see other artists having. But I think once you get to that, like scale, um, You can't put it back in the bottle.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like it's crazy how many people have had lifelong careers in music because of Stan Twitter and something super, super interesting. So like if you are allowed to share, is there any like artist projects or anything that you've worked on that you were really excited about?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know, like people know you in a way that they know. And there's going to be people who have no idea what you're talking about or referencing or blah, blah, blah. And there's a beauty in like enjoying that time when maybe not as many people like you, but the people who do like you love you.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know, gatekeep yourself. 2025, gatekeep yourself. You must. Gatekeep all things.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Absolutely. Which I thought was awesome. And I think even when she was having her biggest commercial success, all the things she did to market the album were still only to the subculture.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
It was Boiler Room. It was her doing the performance in the middle of upstate New York, like that rave. It was her shutting down Times Square. Mm-hmm. Even as things started to scale, it made it so like Charlie isn't chasing the party. Wherever Charlie goes is the party.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Because also, like, Brat was, like, the gift that kept on giving. Yeah. Like, it somehow kept getting bigger. And it's still giving. And it's still giving, right?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
It was, like, the album, then it was Lorde, then it was Remix, then it was Billy, then it was... Or, sorry, then it was the Deluxe, then it was Billy, then it was Troy, then it was Remix album, then it was Sweat Tour, then it... You know what I mean? Like, it... she knew that.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Also, I think another interesting thing too is like a lot of times I think artists who get the biggest are people who just put shit out a lot.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like that is really, I think something that the music industry has not latched onto yet of in this age of social media, the album does not matter that much. Like, I think that this is something like I would say I spice, although she did not have a, has not had a good year, which we'll talk about later on.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But when she got a best new artist on, and at one point had like, Oh, I think 50 million monthly listeners last year. With no album. She was just like putting out a song every month for like 14 months. And I was like, I think the reason she got so big is because there was no moment for the momentum to fall. You know, like it just, it kept getting bigger.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
She would just putting shit out all the time. And I think that really helped. Like, that's like not something that I think a lot of artists have realized yet. I was like, also like not every song needs to be your best fucking work. Just put it out and see if people like it or not. Which is a very, very interesting thing.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Going into talking about the music, sadly, my hot take, music is not always the most important thing. I think the job of the song is to tell the story of the ethos But if the ethos isn't good, it doesn't mean the song will be good. And this is really lyricism 101. And I think music should always find a way to connect back to the ethos. And it doesn't have to be so deep.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I'm not saying every single song needs to be your deepest, darkest, most emotional trauma. But I think like an artist I think of who did this so well was Chapel, right? Like the ethos is... I am a queer girl who's from the Midwest with a conservative family. I grew up with this entire life of not being able to accept who I was, love who I wanted to love.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And then I moved to California and then I had this big moment of being surrounded by art and love and acceptance for the first time ever. And every song connects back to that thesis, right? Whether it is like Pink Pony Club is very literal, right?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know, I'm having dreams of Santa Monica, blah, blah, blah, like lines of the song to Good Luck, Babe, which is, you know, this talking about a very queer experience being in love with a woman who you know is gay, but it has not accepted that herself. So she like can't be with you to casual getting eaten out in the passenger seat, right?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like not every song is equally as deep or as interesting, but like I can tell you that one sentence, that thesis statement and directly explain to you every single song that she has released, how it connects back to that. And I think that is the most important thing, you know, like not and to compare it to someone who also blew up this year, but isn't super deep. It's like a Sabrina.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like Sabrina is like the hot girl. You know, she's popular. She's cutesy. She's flirty. And espresso is not a deep song, but it is that me espresso. Like that's me. You know, like you, you, I'm not heartbroken over you. You should be excited. I even walked in the room.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
That's her, the ethos. So if you go to this next slide, two people that I think really has popped up to me in the past year are iSpace and Dua Lipa. I'm very interested to hear your take on this.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I love Dua Lipa too. I do, but it is undeniable. And I even liked a lot of iSpace music, but it is undeniable they both had bad years.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I just don't think there was something to get. And I think that's the issue.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Yeah, you're putting the radical in radical optimism.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Great song. That's one of the great ones. Also, I'm obsessed with these walls. Those are my favorite songs. Yeah. But I think the problem is not that I don't think you're wrong. I think that that story was not clear to 99% of people.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I think that's the issue. Like, there was no storytelling of this. Like, what is... I mean, even think about it as little things, too. Like, I can tell you so clearly, and I have, what I would wear to an Olivia Rodrigo concert, what I would wear to a Billie Eilish concert, what I would wear to a Charli XCX concert. No idea what I would wear to a Julia concert.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But that is not... You need more. Tate is hot. Sabrina is hot. Billie is hot. You need more. This is what I'm saying. Like, I think, like, a big... Mistake. Even like with an ethos can be like a little thing. Like I think something that really, really blew up talking about Ice Spice in the beginning was she leaned into this identity of being a New Yorker.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Every song she put out was somehow connecting back to being a New Yorker, right? Like Delhi. A LA artist cannot write that song.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
It does not make sense. It's so unique. Even the music video just being shot in the deli. Like, it was everything. It was iconic.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And that made it so... Her ethos was tied to this piece of identity. And then when she shifted to, like, Y2K... Do you know how many fucking people have done Y2K? I'm tired of Y2K, bro. We're all referencing Y2K every 10 minutes. Like, it's not...
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
unique and interesting to me anymore yeah but at least I think like her leaning into New York is a city with a cult-like following you know like people who are New Yorkers are passionate about being New Yorkers and I think that was something that really really worked for her and like Dua again like I just don't like when I think of Dua's branding it's anything artists and other artists can do like you think dancer I think Tate
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You think like she has a really, really incredible vocals also. But like I wouldn't say she's a vocalist. Like it's not what she's known for. I can't think of what she is known for. I can't think of like brands and things that would make so much sense for a collaboration with Dua Lipa. You know what I mean? I disagree. Good. Then disagree with me. I want to hear like why you disagree.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I don't think I disagree with what you're saying. I think that the, my problem is that the anchor is not planted anywhere.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
No, it is. And also SoundCloud, another great thing we can talk about too. I mean, I think you think like Billy was like the SoundCloud kid. And that whole era of music was super, super fascinating. So that is so awesome. And diving into the presentation.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
That's what I need. You know what I mean? Like I want her to be visual, like, or not sorry, visual, more specific than like I, I have some time, like I feel like if do it, leave, I should literally make an album called European summer vacation. You know what I mean? Like something like that. Like literally, yeah. I mean, you'd have to change the title a little bit.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But like I think that she so personifies this feeling of like dance and pop and high energy. I think very back, something you and I have talked about in the past is positive pop. I think that's why Dua Lipa really blew up in the beginning when I think of like self-titled and future nostalgia was that she was one of the only artists in this time of like
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
you know, the Taylors and the Olivias and the Billys, like those types of artists blowing up. That was the only like, I am hot. I am the hot girl. You know, like even I think way back to like 2015's era, that was what was interesting about like Taylor versus Ariana. Yeah.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know, they never felt like they were in the same world because Taylor was, like, sad girl poet and Ariana was, like, hot girl, you're obsessed with me vocalist.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And I would say that it never felt like they were in competition.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like, they weren't in competition ever. And I think Dua has struggled to figure out where she...
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
For context with audiences, this is actually a presentation I gave at a label recently. So I'm interested also to see what you guys think of it. And maybe a bit of insight into what it's like if you hire Nikki Breda. And please, my email's open. But with that. build a great artist, I kind of place it into three categories. Number one, obviously, is music.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like, or like, I don't even feel like it was like, like I wish she would have used the motif of red.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Throughout. Color would have been great. Color, something.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I don't know. It was like a weird, like that's what I'm saying. Yeah. I don't think that the story wasn't there. I think that our fundamental disagreement here is you are saying things that are factual. Yeah. What I'm saying is the facts aren't connecting.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But it's not, wasn't for many people, unfortunately, on this one. It was for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Again, like, and it was great music. Like, I really like this album, truly. But I think that that's why. And again, it's interesting because at one point, and continues to be one of the biggest artists of all
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
It seems like there's more new artists than ever, and it has never been more exciting to be a part of the music industry, which got me thinking, why? Why do we have more artists now than we ever have in the past?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
time she's one of the only people who have two top 10 albums in the top 10 of most streamed things on spotify but also again i i think this disagreement is like good like the fact that we we consumed the art differently is is very good very good but for the sake of time okay we gotta go to the visuals
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
So, again, talking about visuals is like I think it's telling the story of the ethos through some sort of visual. And great visual storytellers transcend the medium of just music. A world is more than just a song. Like I love this quote. If you want to be great at fashion, study anything besides fashion. Art, history, politics, anything. It doesn't matter what it is.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You need to gain perspective on something else and take that back to fashion. Mm-hmm. And I think it's a quote about fashion, but I think it applies to all art. Yeah. And essentially just this idea that like if you are constantly studying other musicians only, then the only thing you're going to put out is something that is some blend or meld of what these other musicians are already doing.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Whereas if you are consuming new stimuli, then you will create something new.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Is I think really like what the foundational... Source material. Yeah, exactly. It's, I mean, because everything is source material plus some alchemy of your creative input towards the thing. You know, like we are all an average sum of like the hundreds of thousands of things we've all consumed. Mm-hmm. So when you want to think of something new, consume new things.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And when it talks to, you know, again, like I think about like one of the best, most impressive visuals of this year, possibly of all time is Brat. Like regardless of whether you like it or hate the music, you cannot deny that Brat was everywhere. And I think that this is the definition of like a visual that personified the ethos. Like it was Brat summer. It was crying in the club.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
It was being sweaty and not apologizing for it. And like everything she did was in pursuit of that ethos, right? To the boiler room, to shutting down Times Square, to having that music video with like all of those people in it, right? These people like that personified brat.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
She never explained how or why they were brat, but you saw these 10 people sitting in a room and understood like why they would be friends almost.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
If you're listening to this podcast, you like music. We all know music is important. It is what you create, it is what you output. With that, though, I think the ethos is most important. So it is not just about what you do, how you do it, or why you do it. Like, what is your creative purpose? What is what makes you and your story different from anyone else out there in the world listening?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know what I mean? And talking about it's not for everyone. It was this combination of references built a profile as to like what was brat. And then you could then take that profile and assign it on to anything and everything.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Oh, for sure. For sure. For sure. And, um, you know, I think that that, and then we saw how brat, you know, I mean, there was literally like runways of using this awful green color that they had never used before and cars and, you know, all the brands change their logo to it too.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like that was another thing I think that was, was interesting was that it was so simple that it could be easily repeated in a way that was cool because it allowed people
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
the fandom to run with it i think in ways that she never even really expected and it's still not done which i think is great and honestly it might never be done like we will never see that color and not think brad that but also like the the meme generators of like how you can use the font yeah i i think a lot of things get done really quickly and tired really quickly i'm not tired of it no i still think it's funny it's so funny it's so funny and that meme generator is whoever came up with that deserves a
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
It's correct. Like it is, it is party where she was the party happened. And that is, she is the party girl.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And, you know, to contrast someone like Charlie, I think of Lana. Lana is, what's fascinating to me about Lana is she is not new and trendy. She romanticizes this time of the past. She is not, she's timeless, right? Like what Lana has referenced in the 50s or 60s or whatever, you know, like the,
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Jackie Kennedy and those types of things are like things that have already happened and will always be there and always exist in the world that they are in. And I think that was so interesting about Lana is she is this antithesis of what it means to be a pop star, right? She makes pop music, I guess, but it's not...
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
upbeat and high-pitched it's like slow and methodical her outfits are very retro not like new and trendy and sexy like everything about her is this antithesis of what should be her or what should be expected of somebody in her career path and that I think is what made her so unique I don't know I'm interested to hear in your take as to like why like Lana is this blueprint of the persona and
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And then last is the visual. I think that we live in a world now where music is a visual sport. Like it is a visual realm.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And And I think really romanticizes where she came from.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
The lifestyle she came from. The trailer park and the cigarettes and the not beauty, but finding the beauty in what is like that Midwest life.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
No, that's so good. You really open. And also, I don't even, I think making ugly things beautiful, making simple things beautiful, you know, like, I don't know, like Lana shooting a music video in a laundromat, which just makes sense.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And I don't know why or how, but it just, it would like she, it is this romanticization and glamoring what we all have to do every day, this real life that you're describing. Um, and not belittling those things or aspiring for more, but finding out how do I love those things that I have to do anyways. And I think that that is a really, really, um, beautiful thing.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And again, talking about it's, it's like counterintuitive to the typical narrative of, you know, what a pop star would be.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I would argue that upwards of 90% of the time you're even discovering new music, you are seeing it in some way, whether that is through social media, whether that is through like watching an artist interview, whether that is you in the club dancing with your friends and like physically seeing how people move when the song comes on. Like,
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Another two little like interesting things I wanted to bring up. One, I had the conversation with my friend. I thought it was so interesting where we were talking about vinyl, like how people purchase vinyl. And she was talking about how every single person I know has like multiple vinyls that they've never listened to. And how the reason we buy vinyl is not to physically consume music. It is art.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Vinyl is not music. It is home decor. And I thought that was so interesting. And then she was talking about, too, and I was just like, what's very interesting to me is that the movie business, entertainment business, never figured that out. They never figured out. People stopped buying DVDs, and nobody buys DVDs anymore. People stopped buying CDs, and they started buying vinyl.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Because vinyl became this thing I want to put on my shelf. I have a little... you know, section of my house that shows off my vinyls. I have a collection, whatever. And starting to think about album covers, not as what does a cover of an album look like, but what is this home decor? What is it going to look like in somebody's house?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I thought it was like a really interesting thought process that I had never like reflected on anyways. I don't know. I just thought it was super, super interesting.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
They haven't figured that out. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting was like movie found out how to monetize physical merchandise through like action figures and costumes. And you know what I mean? Like you walk into a Target and it's movies. The kids section of a Target is movies, which is interesting because I think music also should have figured that out. You know what I mean?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like you don't think that like Taylor Swift could have an entire aisle of like the girls kids section of Target.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Right. That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's interesting that music never figured that out too. It reverse wise. And an interesting thing of like how physical consumption is like impacting these things, which I think we're seeing a big shift in D to C though.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I think we will too. I mean, notoriously merch has been so bad. Um, but last thing I want to touch on super quick is this last slide about visuals building identity because two artists that I think are super interesting to compare, um, as like specifically in the past year that they've had is Addison Rae versus Madison beer. Whoa.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Music is this visual realm, not even to account for things like music videos and outfits and you know what I mean, like a rollout of an album is obviously extremely visual, but I think that music is a visual medium. And then you can see also how these things intersect, as we'll talk about later on, you know, like lyrics is a great example of, you know,
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
because i think that they are so came from very similar places you think like this internet kind of realm like i feel like a popular internet relatively around the same time okay and i would say that addison ray is a worse singer but better at building a world and madison beer is a better singer but worse at building a world okay and it's interesting to me that addison had a bigger year okay
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
it like, I just think that it's so interesting. Like, cause I, to this day, like again, like, I don't know. I think Madison is trying to figure it out and she has shifted so many things. Like even just looking at these three pictures of Addison, like I see how they look, they connect. She wants, she, her references are Brittany, Charlie, and Lana.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And she wants to be this like middle point of the Venn diagram between the thing. Like she is pop girl and she's kind of party, but also is a bit more poetic, you know, like diet Pepsi vibes. I feel like Madison has struggled so hard to like figure out her lane. She makes incredible music, but she has not found like a story that has grasped people. Does that make sense?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And I think that's interesting is like this is Madison's problem.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And that, real. I think that's really, really real, valuable feedback. Or is, I think Addison's willing to fail.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like, people haven't talked about it. I'm like, this is like her third attempt at putting out music. It works now. But she has tried. She's had music videos that got shit on. She's leaked an EP that got shit on. Then she leaked more songs, 10 songs that weren't even on this EP. Like, she has tried so many times. And finally, it started working. And which one I think is cool.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
willing to fail in the public eye and take feedback and improve like again talking about Dua remember people used to shit on Dua for being a bad dancer yeah and then she just like buckled down and now she's like an incredible like I would put her in like the top echelon of performers she's amazing and that to me is one of the coolest like I love to see an artist do that I think it's so cool like we have somehow like like to criticize things instead of like
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
appreciating and encouraging people to improve. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you're wrong. You're bad. Instead of like, this is an opportunity for you to get better.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
the music and the ethos of the artist intersecting and how you're telling a story. Or, you know, I always say like references and symbolism is a great example of how the visual and the ethos can kind of overlap, right? Like, you know, someone referencing Lana versus somebody referencing Britney Spears is not going to be the same visual. You know what I mean?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
That's such a good question because no, and that's absolutely like, you're right. It doesn't make sense. It literally does not make sense. But, um, I think Addison has a vision for where she wants to go, even if she's not there. I think Madison is struggling to find the vision and that has been her issue. Yeah.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know, like visually, like even these three pictures, I show you like this magazine cover to what she wore at a concert to what she was wearing in the make you mind music video.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Okay, that's what I thought it was. Because she looks very Megan Fox in this. Yeah.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Moral of the story, God gives his toughest battles to his strongest soldiers. It's hard. And Madison Beer is in the trenches of that. You know, like she's just perfect at everything and, you know, it's going to be a rough life. Anyways, I really enjoyed talking to you. This was so much fun.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I know you should come back sometime. We got to wait until there's like a good release that we both like really want to talk about and I'll see y'all next week. Bye.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And they are different ethoses, but combined in different ways. So this is kind of how I have always thought about it. Um, and it'll be interesting, I guess, as I like walk you through, uh, to see like how you think similarly or differently or, or things you've worked on in the past.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I think there's a lot of reasons for this with the innovations of technology and streaming, democratizing the way people discover and consume music, this decentralization of the label structure. And more than anything, I think it's just more possible for an artist to succeed on their own. Simply having social media and these tools for discovery has made it so you can be an artist from your bedroom.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I love that. And it's also, it's like, what are the NPCs wearing? Yes. You know, like what restaurants are in the world? How are they behaving? Yeah.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Now that's so interesting. I really like that analogy. That's a good one. We should circle back to that, like the visual part. So talking about ethos, I always talk about this. It's this beautiful TED talk I've talked in the past called The Golden Circle by Simon Sinek. Um, essentially it's talking about how every creative person has three layers to what they do, right?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And your why factor is the most important, the deepest, most inner layer, uh, that builds the deepest community and deepest connection. However, on the outer layer are the things that you do the most or people see the most. So out is what, what you do is you're a musician, you're an artist. Congratulations, you and 1 billion other fuckers on this planet, right?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like just being an artist is not interesting. And also I think this is interesting when you think about like content, like promoting the music, you know, what you do is somebody like doing a cover of a song, right? Congrats. You're a singer. You have a good voice. Anyone else can cover that song. Then we go how you do it. How you do it is a little bit more interesting, right?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Maybe you use a certain production style. Maybe you use certain software. Maybe you do certain things with your vocals. Maybe... It really, I think, how speaks to like education almost. Like it is... Identifying why you are an expert and why somebody should listen to you or believe you.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
So, you know, a great example of like how thing I think about that like went viral recently was like that clip from the Billie Eilish concert where she was like layering her vocals live. You know what I mean? Like that is it shows. how she is a good singer. Like this is literally how I made this song. And the fact that I can do this makes you see like, wow, she's so talented. Right.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But again, the interesting thing about this, like how content I think about is anybody can copy that. Right. Like, is it impressive and amazing? Billy did it. Yes. Can another singer on their tour layer something in their vocals? Absolutely.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
It's, it's impressive. It's educational, but it's not unique. Then the most inner circle is why, why you do it. Your why factor is like this unique piece of your human story that no one else can replicate. It is why you wrote the song.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
It is why you got into music, whatever, whether that is you had this very, very specific relationship that had this breakup and this fight that made you so angry that you sat down and wrote that song, right? Like, No one else can write that song because they weren't in that relationship with that person on that day, whatever.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Why you do it is the most important factor towards, I think, building a connection. You know, anyone can write a song about heartbreak, but like really making the audience understand why this is the type of man I was with. This is how long we were together. This is the things he did to me, right? Like this Y factor is how people see themselves reflected in you.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
They might not be identical one-to-one relationship. They're like, oh my God, that reminds me of this boyfriend I had, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So on, I think also the Y factor is the hardest to tell. You know, it's like hard to get people to like anchor on to that like story or like fundamental piece of you, but it is necessary.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And I think people who really don't do well, or you see, I think a lot of times we saw early pandemic, these artists who got huge on TikTok, like just doing things like covers, you know what I mean? And they did not build a story or like an ethos or a why factor.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And time and time again, especially I feel like in the pandemic, we saw people How that happened and people were able to build entire careers without these teams around them, especially in the beginning. So how do you do that? How do you grow as an artist in 2025? Well, that is exactly the question we set out to solve here today.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Yeah, that is a really, really good point, too. Sometimes almost not saying things... Like, what she doesn't say speaks louder than what she does say.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Which is really, really interesting. And also, again, talking back to this, like, Minecraft, like, example, too. Like, I feel like with Lana, like, she does it... She communicates her why through visuals. I think that's, like, what's most impressive about Lana. Like, I would argue that... the biggest like pioneer of what the modern like artist persona is, is Lana.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Obviously not in terms of like everybody looking like her, but in terms of the way she did it, like through music videos, through social media, Tumblr way back in the day. And thinking about this world, you know, like, Like Nosferatu is in the movie theater of Lana Del Rey's Minecraft universe.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like even though she's never talked about it, like it's just something about how it like I would say like the ethos of a Lana fan. It's like true art, beautiful things, vintage. You know what I mean? And like somehow that can seep its way into other elements of culture. For sure. Another great example, I think, of an ethos of someone I've talked about in the past is Dochi.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Right now. Especially, like, specifically the song to Dialysis River.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
I have said this song goes over a relationship, a breakup, getting cheated on, him destroying her entire apartment, her having a drug addiction, her having an alcohol addiction, her getting clean, her having her first viral sex, her pressures from the label and the industry after going viral from that success, her struggle with the label, then to writing this album.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like, it is an autobiography put into song. Yeah. And I think not everybody does it in the way Dochi does it in the song because it's so literal. Like, literally, I think the first line of the song is, like, old dude from 2019. Like, it is literally, like, timeline, action, consequence, moving forward. And compare that to someone like Lana. Lana would never do that. Ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But I think I like this song as an example of ethos because I think it's so literal that it's, like, a very good thing to study. But... is showing, like you can't like this song without liking her as a person or understanding her story as a person.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Welcome back to Nikki and I. I'm your host, Nikki Verda, and we have our very first guest. I'm so excited and honored to be here. Kalisha Midlani, my very, very good friend who has worked in music. And I mean, I've known her for a while, but Kalisha, just introduce yourself, dude.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Yes. Well, I think I mean, I think in any and all music, there is always X percent of the audience who like doesn't consume music to the level that like we do.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like not. Yeah. Like literally not. People are like, oh, I just like that song, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that. Like, that's beautiful. It's it's passive listening. You know, it's the same way how sometimes you like watch a TV show, you don't necessarily pay attention to it all the time. But I think what I'm talking about, I guess like building a fandom.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know what I mean? Like if you, or regardless of whether you love it or hate it, you at least know it is maybe more interesting. You know, like it, you can't listen to the song and not know about her life. You do like, right. Like even if you don't download that and encode it perfectly, it is there for the people who want to find it, find it as you're talking about earlier, like with Lana. Yeah.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But like interesting, I would love to hear your example. Like talking about an artist like Lana, like what way do you think she, how does one establish that sense of ethos without directly stating it to an audience?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
No, I don't think so either. But like... But it's also like you're supposed to know.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
But it's like she doesn't care. Yeah. And I mean, I think like... What you said, honestly, like the way I interpret it is it's like references. Yeah. It's references. And what's interesting, even when you're talking about like, you know, like the daughters of Lana, I think they all reference Lana, but in different ways.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know, like Billie is a clear vocal Lana reference. Visuals couldn't be different.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Right. Like Lana would not be caught dead in anything Billie Eilish has worn ever and vice versa. Right. Like it's just not. But it's clearly like sonically, you know, like you hear Ocean Eyes and like you feel Lana in that. Yeah. And other artists have done it in different ways. Or, you know, you can talk about like an Addison, like Diet Pepsi was like very heavy intentional on it.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And I think that is a good thing. Like if you want people to understand an emotional factor about you, an easy way to do that is reference something that has that emotional factor.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
You know what I mean? Like in a way that also doesn't have to be so black and white because it's not for everybody.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Um, which is cool. I mean, something I talk about in this channel a lot too, is I feel like a lot of time artists, like when they try to appeal to less people, they end up appealing to more people.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
And it's because it's like, yeah, this is not going to resonate with everybody on earth, but the few people it does resonate with will internalize it and accept it so deeply that they want to talk about it. And they share it in the car with their friend and they put it on at the club. You know what I mean?
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Like it's something like the depth of connection causes actually wider reach than just this like mass appeal.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Yeah. Going to the next slide. Something like I had always said to you, like when talking about, um, building an artist is I feel like the best and most, you know, quick successful artists we've seen are all people that you can almost describe in a sentence and you understand who they are, right? Like Charlie XCX party girl, Beyonce. I would say she's the queen of music in every genre.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
Taylor Swift is like girl next door. Olivia Rodrigo is like angsty teen, um, Sabrina Carpenter is like, you know, sexual unapologetic flirt. Billie is like generational talent artists. You know, Chapel is very like the Midwest princess, queer icon, you know, like almost something that is so...
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
No, that's great. That was pretty good, though. That was great. I love that you came from One Direction Twitter. It is truly beautiful how much One Direction Twitter has like influenced the music industry.
Nicky at Night
The 3 things that Make or Break a New Artist
digestible that it is so short you can say in a sentence and also it makes you understand who they appeal to i think really well you know like charlie versus taylor they couldn't be different from one each other sonically but i so you so deeply understand who likes charlie and why they like her and people who wouldn't like charlie and why they wouldn't like her and i think she what's interesting about her she doesn't care yeah it's not for everybody you know like she under like there's so many people out there who are not going to get i'm everywhere i'm so julia