Noeline Blackwell

Well, because they're the people who are holding these health records.

So Barbara has explained really well what happens.

But the real issue here for a lot of people is that when they go to a counsellor, they're going to a health specialist.

They are not going to the guards at that stage.

And then, however, the law is so lax and so wide at the moment that a client in a therapy session risks their notes being called up by the accused.

So at the moment, someone who is accused of a sexual offence may very well ask

once they know that there's a therapist involved, they may ask to see the counselling notes.

And the reason they ask to see them is can they damage in any way the credibility of the person making the complaint by comparing for little differences perhaps.

between counselling notes and what is said to the guards.

So in that case, as the law stands right now, the law allows the accused to get information about a person's counselling notes and the person who has the notes is the therapist.

So the therapist is being asked

to hand over these notes in some occasions, sometimes to the guard, sometimes to the DPP.

It may be that the court will ask, but for the most part, the real problem for victim survivors is that the guard will say, or the DPP will say, I need those notes in order to make sure we have a good case here that will go ahead.

And the person is under such pressure that they feel they have to hand them over.

But it's not actually to strengthen the case.

The DPP does not need those notes for the case.

The DPP is taking a legal case.

They are depending on the Garda statements, like in any other crime.

One of the quirks that has come in over the past 30 years is

is this capacity of the accused to demand to see health notes.