Norman Swan

My understanding is that depression doesn't really kick in until about after the age of 10.

It's mostly anxiety in younger children and depression kicks in after that.

Are we really talking about young children?

And is it like adults where depression is part of the story but only part?

Okay, so you've got this guideline, which is supposed to be a guideline to, if you like, a Bible for clinicians, whether it be psychologists, GPs, psychiatrists, child psychiatrists, and so on, to follow, and also information for parents so they know the kind of right questions to ask and what the care pathway might be.

But I want to challenge you, Sydney.

The title says evidence-based.

And I've been through it.

It's not evidence-based at all.

There's a handful of all the recommendations you're making.

Only a handful are based on evidence.

The rest are what are called consensus-based recommendations.

And that pejoratively used to be called good old boys sat around the table.

In other words, opinion not based on evidence at all.

And so how can you actually put your hand on your heart and say this is evidence-based when it's just a tiny handful?

So how can we trust it then?

I mean, we can trust that you've gone through a process and if there's evidence you've found it, but how can we trust the vast majority of recommendations and say, well, this is going to guide care?

And just to expand here, we're talking about dialectical behavioural therapy rather than cognitive behavioural therapy.

And just to explain, rather than going to now, we'll put a link to a DBT resource so you can understand what it is.

on our website.