Oliver Carney

And Cornifalla, it's such a lovely name to say.

What does it mean?

But, of course, Borden and Mona would say it's not either or, it is and.

They would say, look, we need green energy, we can put the wind turbines up and we can do nature restoration and we can do flood mitigation and it can still pull down carbon.

This is a bog that in 1987 Bordenamona started to harvest peat from.

There are an awful lot of spider webs everywhere and moths coming up as we walk.

It looks very sweet and very pretty, but it's kind of devilish, isn't it?

Anything that's going to eat its prey like that.

So what do you want to happen to this 1,000-acre bog, which is essentially owned by the public but managed by Board Nimona?

We need clean energy, and it seems like a kind of good place to put it because it's connecting into the grid.

It's a big open space.

There aren't loads of houses everywhere.

In terms of the national interest, does that not make sense?

But Amanda, I mean, you don't want this wind turbine either, but the reality is, from a national interest point of view, we need green energy.

So where are we going to get it from?

Oliver, do you think that fundamentally what we need is a kind of overarching plan, national plan, for how we use the land?

So this is where we do farming, this is where we do onshore wind, this is where we do tourism, this is where we build houses.