Owen Bennett-Jones

Yes, I didn't get that bit. I mean, the other thing was that this journalist, this editor of The Atlantic, was saying he basically thought it was a hoax and that someone was trying to trick him into doing something and he'd be discredited in some way. And it's not a hoax.

world that shara is intending to have more inclusive and diverse government though the main question remains how much is he going to be willing to empower these folks in that stage yeah just pick you up on that point you made there about you know impressing the syrian people in the outside world do you think you know western writers and journalists tend to say oh he's trying to impress the west is that just a sign of western arrogance actually this is more about internal syrian politics do you think or not

What do you think his jihadist colleagues are making of this? I mean, many of them must be saying this is not what we fought for.

Were these children Jewish children from the community? Were they brought in from other countries?

And this is a religious outfit, is it?

It sounds like a cult. Do you know how many people were there?

There's someone, a special prosecutor, saying that officers found bodies that had been buried there.

So it sounds like this group will now be broken up.

Yeah, but I mean, even if you had monitored the Internet and seen his conspiracy theories, you wouldn't think they would lead to a violent act like this, would you?

I take your point that there were some worrying signs online. Basically, he was anti-system. Is that the sort of broad category you could put him in?

If it's not live, it's sort of just a few seconds after live.

That is a totally amazing suggestion. After all that's happened, the numbers are much the same. I mean, Reuters are running a story that people in Washington, intelligence official, congressional staff is saying they've recruited between 10 and 15,000 since October the 7th.

Many outside of Gaza say Hamas should be unpopular. It brought this great suffering upon the people who live in Gaza. Is that reflected in what people in Gaza actually think? How popular is it?

Okay, so they're very much pinning everything on Rwanda being responsible for the advance on Goma, is that right?

And so do we have any sense of whether the government is able to, you know, get its army to resist this? I mean, what are they saying?

So through the day, we've also had news that peacekeepers have been killed, three South Africans and others killed in the fighting around Goma. What can you tell us about that?