Pablo Torre

It's important, I think, that I keep on hammering that both of us have done investigative reporting, and we know all of the ways in which cynicism may be justified.

You've investigated performance-enhancing drugs, and we've both investigated various financial frauds, and we know even the criticisms of the salary cap as a concept.

I hear all of it, and I understand all of it as best I can.

The point, though, is that on a relative basis, I don't know if there's another—

laboratory for rules mattering that's more accessible or potentially persuasive than what sports offers.

Well, we're like importing Silicon Valley's

as well as the actual, again, the great men that founded and ran a bunch of these companies.

It's that sports, again, both literally and metaphorically, is a shrine to competition.

And if there's any political party that I feel like is being underrated as a concept, it is the pro-competition party.

Which can encompass both capitalism in its purest theoretical form, as well as regulation.

Yeah.

Which is, again, like, and she's been a guest on this show as well, I kind of feel like I'm a Lena Kahn Democrat.

Just like more competition.

This is the thing that runs through the story of the NBA.

And by the way, from a pure product perspective, I think one test that I thought about while I was reading your book and I was wondering, like, when it comes to the product.

that citizens, customers are receiving.

One easy acid test for all of this is, is it better?

Is the lack of competition getting us better products?

Or is it in fact, in the case of the NBA, as all of these incredibly rich people come in, unregulated, is it in fact worse?

are reporting on the NFLPA, the Players Union.