Pablo Torre

I do like that any interview with you, Ben, must begin with you handing your phone to someone else.

I am not here to talk to you because you've represented Edward Snowden as his attorney for years now.

That's not why, also, I've been going to Knicks games with you secretly.

Why's that?

Well, it's because you got me tickets.

I consider you a friend, Ben Wisner, and that is the ultimate reason.

You're a fellow dad, and I just wanted to get you off the couch.

And you care about the Knicks.

I'm a lifelong fan.

This team is in the Eastern Conference semifinals.

You legitimately, and almost surprisingly insanely...

care about the Knicks.

It's not even so much the shirt as it was the standing up during free throws and celebrating.

I mean, look, you're the guy who was defended famously, the most important whistleblower arguably in American history.

And you end up being the guy who is heckling literal whistleblowers, referees on the court.

That's nicely done.

It's never occurred to you that you are both of these characters?

Is why you get the prizes.

So we talk a lot about whistleblowers and basketball and secrets on this show.

And I think there is no one more qualified to discuss the collision of all of these topics.