Patrick Carey

Yeah, I think I would say if you had to put them in, put them on a scale of sad or depressing, the first book would certainly win out over cleanness.

I think you sort of hit the nail on the head there, Kate, is that one of the things he does so wonderfully is not be judgmental at all.

And part of that is being extremely honest about his emotional state of being.

So, yes, the character does engage in these risqué sexual liaisons.

And risky.

And risky.

Risqué and risky.

But I think it would be remiss of the writer not to dissect the character's anxieties about these practices as well.

Because no one exists in a bubble and while...

there's no doubt that people do engage in these practices in fulfilling and happy ways.

There's also a lot of shame, a lot of internalised homophobia that orbits around them as well.

And so Garth Greenwell kind of gives you the full spectrum.

Yeah, he does.

And I mean, it's also interesting to learn a little bit about, you know, the fate of Eastern Europe in more contemporary times because so much of the history that we hear about it is linked around the end of the Cold War and all that sort of stuff.

He writes very plainly and accessibly about living in a place that he doesn't fully understand whilst also having an active interest in it.

I think that there's one particular section which I think you're referring to, Kate, is where he attends a rally

and he really beautiful like a sort of political protest and he really beautifully illustrates the way that these group these collective demonstrations both sort of represent how people feel about their government but also don't fully capture the nuances of every individual's opinion on what's going on you know there's a cab driver that doesn't think that there's any point to protest because no one's going to listen anyway and then there's the idealistic student who's

so excited to even be walking on the street because it's the first time she's been able to protest like that.

So he really, for a book that focuses a lot on inward, could be accused of being navel-gazy, he manages to give you a broad societal view of the experience of the main character.

Oh, look, it did.