Patrick O'Shaughnessy

We discuss innovation, state capacity, and investing across both superpowers.

Please enjoy my great conversation with Dan Wong.

Can you teach us the origins of that aspect of their society?

What do you think the greatest aspect of the U.S.

system is that you have the hardest time imagining getting truly adopted in China?

Pluralism.

And you have this great Andy Grove quote in the book about the difference between the mythical, magical moment of creation and innovation that the U.S.

has so dominated and this ability to innovate on the factory for the scaling up that China has done so well.

Based on everything you just said, how do you relate to their ability to do more innovation in the future?

There's that famous stat of only one Nobel laureate has ever been from China or something.

I think it's that low.

Say a little bit about your conclusions around their current ability to innovate and how that might change in the future.

If I oversimplify this to the U.S.

is the leader in zero to one and China's leader in one to end scale up in manufacturing, which would be harder for the other to get?

Like, would it be harder for the U.S.

to get really good at the scale up in manufacturing or harder for China to get good at the zero to one based on everything you know about both?

What's more likely?

What should the US do that it's not doing?

If you were the dictator of the US economy and your goal was to make it catch up in this regard as much as possible, because it seems like the consensus is, wouldn't it be great?

And there's some people that are trying to do this in small ways so far.