Paul Taswell

So all those were seen as more feminine.

And then, you know, I couldn't get around being a black man or a black woman

boy, you know, that was how I was seen as well.

So, you know, navigating that, you know, when you think about it, when I think about it, you know, just sitting here with you, it's like, well, that informs why I'm doing what I'm doing because I'm actually trying to control how people see other people before they've said anything.

At that time, I had not let go of performance.

But, you know, in 1978, The Wiz came out as a film.

Yep, that's right.

The one with Diana Ross and Michael Jackson, Nipsey Russell was in it, and Richard Pryor and Lena Horne.

And that was hugely formative for me visually, you know, to see, again, to see black faces in this epic film rendered in great style visually.

and amazing music by Quincy Jones.

He did all the orchestrations for that.

It blew my mind, you know, to see that kind of expression of disco iconography represented as the Emerald City world, you know, because I knew The Wizard of Oz from 1939, but then to see it told in our, you know, my cultural language was...

was, you know, life-changing.

It was like, oh, yeah, well, of course.

You know, this all works beautifully.

You know, or like the... I think they call them the Winkies in the film.

Those people in the factory that are working for Eveline, when they unzip out of their bodies and the skin falls away, and then there are these beautiful dance theater parlor dancers...

And you see their brown skin and, you know, just, you know, that was, again, mind-blowing.

It was magical.

Then, because I went to a magnet school in Akron, part of that was that there was a performing arts program within that school.