Penn Badgley
Appearances
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And then I think I realized that as I was doing it, because it was a new thing. And I just said, I'm sorry. I'm being really impatient with you, aren't I? And then he just went, yeah. And it immediately broke. And I said, you're right. I don't like the way I was speaking to you.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, and I was like, would you still gotta get in the fucking car seat? No, no, no.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
No, it was really, it was like he relaxed.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
but when this happened I realized like oh you know in terms of my mom like she probably I don't I don't know I'm not sure but certainly in terms of my father I think I just their generation, the way they parented all of us, I was just like, oh, that was new. Me apologizing to a three-year-old as his father, I was like, that's new.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
you know i happen to be birth is just it's like it's in my you know i mean so so actually when we thought we were just gonna have one and we were close to being like no we're good you know we were we were close then we decided no you know what let's let's try it and um i think we thought maybe one would be you know we know what it is.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Right, and that was a beautiful moment. That was like, you know.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Oh yeah, oh yeah. Well, the insecurity hadn't even really found its full expression until I moved here because I was 12. And, you know, I hadn't yet started making money in a livelihood, a practice, a craft that would come to depend more and more on the way that I looked.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
So when we moved to that mountain outside of Issaquah, having lost my cat, wasn't enrolled in school because it was the end of the school year. And so the long summer was ahead of us. Again, parents like- Not the tightest. my mom clearly saw like, Ooh, this is, we need something. You know, we need like neighbors. Our closest neighbor was a mile away.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Like our driveway was like two dirt tracks up there. It was like a real mountain. That's why the cat died. There's cougars and bears and all kinds of... And you're an only child.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I don't know what the competition was like. No memory of that. I got the role. Winthrop, the music man, it's a significant role. He's a boy with a lisp who's very quiet and shy. I was very quiet and shy, but he comes out of his shell when he learns to play something in a band. So I loved just the camaraderie.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
of and mixed ages too you know it's like kids and adults and everybody in between and it was it was just like it's not like going to school at all it was it was really really exciting it was um and on opening night just getting that feedback you know the excitement of being on stage you know it creates stakes and structure which everybody i think needs a bit of to thrive like um I loved it.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I loved it. I actually said that night, like, I want to do this for the rest of my life. You know, that little boy was not aware of all the implications or what it would take or that it was ever feasible, that it was actually delusional and basically not feasible. But yeah, and people very quickly. And why they do this, I don't know, but...
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
If you're in any town close to like a major city, like a satellite for L.A., like there's Seattle, there's Florida, like Tampa. A lot of kids come from Florida. There's other places, maybe Chicago. But if you're in a certain town, people will say, you should try going to L.A. I mean, it's not good advice. It's just not good advice.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Are you going to? Yeah. I mean, it's I'm not.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
We have to, we're surrounded by children and people who are having children. That's just kind of, I think it was like, we knew like, yeah, it's going to be a lot, but it's felt like a known quantity. And then it was just, it was like, Oh, Oh, this is how it will be very new.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But this is the thing, though. It is to a degree a fluke. It just is.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I'm not saying there's no talent involved. I'm just saying those of us who make it are something of the exception that proves the rule because the rate of failure in this town is high. It's high. It's high. It's a bit tragically high for people who want to make art and want to do things, want to perform. And it's like, you know. It's to me, it's not just, it's not a meritocracy.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
You know what I mean? I don't know what industry would be, but.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I know when I did, I was 12. I started working that summer.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I mean, so not the whole family. And I wasn't, I mean, my mom was fully capable of working, but she needed to be present. So it was like this dynamic thing. I mean, I was financially independent by 15. I wasn't always the breadwinner, but then, you know, by the time, but like I've always needed to and wanted to provide support for my parents since then.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Who wants to be? No. Well, so here's the thing. That's true starting at 20 years old. So I had eight years of near financial independence, professional work. I was working. I was tired of television by the time Gossip Girl came around.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I famously said, or I don't know famously, but I've said many times, you know, I initially turned the role down and I didn't, and I didn't just like kind of turn it down. I mean, I said, I said, so...
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
grateful you thought of me wish you well but no thanks and they went on to try and cast the whole thing and cast Dan and and they and they and they evidently could cast everybody but but Dan but so you know by the time the point is not about Gossip Girl the point is about time I was 20 I was like I was feeling real disillusioned and dried up and tired of being in Hollywood of acting and
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I've been doing it my entire, since I was 12. When you're 20 years old and you've been doing something professionally since you were 12, that's your life. That's like your whole life. And I was, I was, yeah, I was... You were done because you didn't like it anymore?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
That also, I just was not, you know, I came real close, really close to like a number of great roles in these great independent films and I wouldn't get them. Um... And I was like, okay, great. But you know what? I really wanted to try my hand at music. That had been my passion since, you know.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But the point is, I was real... I had a tiredness about me at 20 that I think is not typical for a 20-year-old because I've been working for so long.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
With all due respect. And I mean, I told the creators this at the outset. So it's not and it's not no shocker. Like, I was not interested. And and that's you know, that's just I think that's fair to say. That's that's fair to say. That's what I have to say about that.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, no, I mean, it's great. I mean, actually, to be honest, like when we see the sonograms right now, seeing them together. So first of all, as an only child, it's very touching to see them already so together. They're so together. They're just like, there was one shot of them where they look like they were just hanging out in a hot tub because they both were like up like this.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I was close to broke. Although that was not I was looking forward to like figuring that out. I'd had a pretty Spartan year behind me, you know, I was like, I, I was enjoying my way of life. But the future was real unknown. And I think, you know, it's not like I could go live with my parents for The stakes, the stakes is high, right?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
So, and you know, a few people, I mean, my manager certainly spoke about it in a way that he thought it was a good idea. Few key people close to me. And then it was New York City, getting to live in New York City where I've now lived since, which is my home and I'd always wanted to live there. You know, you also think about a show like that, it's hard to grow beyond it. I'm gonna be 40 next year.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Wait, I'm 30. You lose track at some point. I'm 38.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
So I'm gonna be 39 this year. Next year, I will be 40. I will still be answering questions about this show I decided to do when I was 20, you know what I mean? And whatever, that is what it is. Like, certainly that's fine. But it sets you on a certain track that you have to, in a sense, resist. You have to learn how to work with it, interface with it.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Otherwise, it just sort of takes you on its ride. So, you know, you're kind of playing, you're taking a huge risk, I think, in a way, actually. You know, if it's going to set you up to do only some things and you're going to have to fight to try and do other things, you know.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
because then you want to you want to keep growing yeah you yeah you want to have some autonomy and you sign so also signing on to a television show what you do is you have to sign a six-year contract there's no other way to do it you don't you know you haven't seen any of those scripts you're just like all right so you know yeah i mean it's yeah i mean i chose to do it
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Cause it felt like it could be an exciting new experience. And, and I'm, yeah, no, I mean, look, I'm grateful for it now. It took, but it took some time. Cause I, cause keep in mind, I started in a place where I was like tired, disillusioned. I was literally compared to the others. Like oddly, I was like a veteran, you know? And I was just kind of like, here we go.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
or at least in the sonogram. I don't know which direction was north or south here, because it's its own world. But they looked like they were sitting across from each other.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I mean, I'd done like four series before that, you know?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I mean, it's not that hard. He's like, he's, isn't he kind of, he's not quiet, is he?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
The same way he's TV, like ugly. And poor. He's the quiet, ugly, poor kid. Like, okay, guys. Sure, sure, sure.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Oh, my goodness. If I could have seen in real life the side of my head, I guarantee you, I would have never... never no no no no no no no not just not just like give dan his flowers let's give let's give young pen his a little bit of something here too you know you know in the early 2000s it was like it was like bootcut jeans with the low rise waist um there's a there's a look
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Just sort of like twitching. I mean, they're in a different position every time we see them.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
to a sideburn that I always wanted. Like the second I could grow facial hair, which happened to be early, you know, it was like I wanted them. And it was just an aesthetic thing that's like, I only see my face from here, you know? I only see just this little bit of, you know, this little bit of contouring. It's like gives me some age, right? Have a baby face, always wanted to look older.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Now, those sideburns, Why didn't anybody say?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Well, and by the way, I didn't do that. That's the way they are.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Because I had to shave every day on that show. It's like I was never allowed for gradation or a little bit of growth. So it's like, look, this is me starting to shave here.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
What comes to mind is listening and then saying, I'm sorry. Those are two things that I think Fathers are not, you know, when men are getting a lot of shit. And these days, when are they not? But, you know, men can be good people. They can be great people. They can be great dads. Dads can be great. And unfortunately, there are enough of us who have shown us otherwise, right?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I can barely remember those storylines. There's a lot of them.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Well, that's not. I mean, it's Joe. I'm sorry. Was Dan masturbating in the street and strangling women? I'm sorry to say it's so pronounced, but I mean, why am I? Everybody was like, he needs to chill. I'm like, no, bro, you watched it. It's what he does. Why? Why? When I say it, is it worse than watching it happen? The worst Joe did or what's his face, Dan? The worst Dan did was.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
The worst Dan did was, I mean, he did like.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
What he did was sociopathic just in terms of being gossip girl. Sorry.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I was in the hair and makeup trailer room. Don't remember what I was wearing. JFK was not assassinated on that day. It was just me being Gossip Girl. But I remember just being like, I'm kind of like, Huh. Okay. Like, if I'm trying to math it, it's tough. All right. And we've got to shoot tomorrow. Cool. Okay. You know, I mean, I found out real late. Real late.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
It wouldn't have made sense for anybody. We all wanted it to be Dorota. Without a doubt.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
They needed it to be a series regular. Sorry.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Series regular. They needed it to be one of the core six. Otherwise, nobody cares.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I'm not just the core six. I'm Gossip Girl, baby.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
You are daddy. I am Gossip Girl. These are facts. Okay? Facts.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Thank you. I just gave you everything you wanted.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Did I get invited? Of course not. It wasn't like they were sending out invites. Yeah, I mean, but I didn't go much. I was not a partier.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Good question. I just had a different friend circle.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Would you go out? Good question. I mean, didn't go out as much. Where did you live? Gramercy.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I did go to One Oak. way after everybody, I'd heard about One Oak a lot. I remember the first time, okay. I remember the first time that I had to pay for a bottle. And this was years later, years, years, years later. I took somebody out. They really wanted to go out. They're from Thailand, right? They like, they wanted to party like they saw. And I was like, okay, we'll go.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I go to some place, I don't even remember the name of that I've been to many times. I bought a bottle and I was like, I'm sorry, come again? What?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
wait whoa you know that meme of the guy being like and the math is flying like this i was just like so not only have i been getting free bottles my whole 20s completely unaware again we're talking about upholding the artifice this is this is i was just like people pay for this this much and you could go to the grocery store and get a bottle of gray goose for like it's criminal
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I was like, yeah, I feel good about not having done this a bunch. I mean, stunned me. It stunned me. I was like, people have to save up to waste it this quickly. I mean, good Lord.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, certainly for Gossip Girl. Certainly because of, you know, the early 2000s celebrity city thing. Yeah, I mean, I think, well, look, you know, and Crimey River, it's not a big deal. What I say is as a witness to it, not as a complaint. But I think one of the aspects of celebrity that you deal with constantly is just like, everybody just thinks you're somebody you're not.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But fathers can be great. And I think, but what we do not,
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And, you know, again, so I think that's just always... So how long did you do Gossip Girl? Six years.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I mean, that's a great question because it was it was the struggle. You know, The difference between... There are many differences between film and television. One of them is that when you do a film, you do it once. And you kind of give it your all. And then you move on, whether you want to or not. You do. When you do a television show, you are... You're doing it constantly.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
attribute to a father much I think is saying something like I'm sorry and like really listening and like you know what I mean yeah I think that's like almost like baseline people are like oh no just like go to your mom if you have a mom because like the dad's not gonna listen so I think it's like nice that you're acknowledging I'm trying to be opposite there just just in those at least I mean look there are other things that I do it's not like I can only listen and say I'm sorry um that would imply I'm just constantly messing up and
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Because of the nature of that show and because of celebrity culture at that time, especially, it was like, you know, I remember like, you know, suddenly the influx of interviews being asked about, like, I remember doing something for, you know, Cosmo Girl or something. That's a thing, right?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Like Teen Vogue had just come out. You know what I mean? Like I remember doing interviews for those kinds of publications and being asked about like, you know, dating advice or like, by the way, like think I've been on one date in my life, like spent most of my time just sort of either in a relationship or not. And I remember just the feeling of,
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But it's this thing, you feel like you're constantly, even though no one may be actually asking you to do this, you feel like you're constantly needing to prove yourself in some manner. Otherwise, what are you doing? I mean, what is the space?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
This kind of thing has evolved over the course of however long, but we didn't have podcasts like this back then where you could explore things at length and depth. they were looking for a quick soundbite and it was just like, it was just like, uh-huh, okay, yeah, all right, okay, all right, uh-huh. It's like, you don't, interfacing in that space
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
can actually feel really crazy and you suddenly feel the need to perform and you're just like, why can't I just say something fucking normal? And so what starts to happen when you're in this one role for a long time, the aspect of celebrity being a part of it, a huge part of it, There is not enough separation, I think, for anybody.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
You're seen as this person, you're called their name out on the street. You also constantly have to be that person at work. And I was 20, I was 21, 22, so I didn't have the emotional maturity to understand, to how to differentiate myself, just in terms of self-worth. What people seem to think of Dan seemed to be what people thought of me.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And now I had enough sense, enough intelligence, enough self-worth, enough just, you know, like I wasn't like losing myself. But it bothered me.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Okay so going back to what we said earlier about uh uh That need for intimacy and really wanting a love that transcends the body, truly. I mean, that's what we all want. But never had an approach. I've had a handful of long relationships. And that's about the extent of it. I really did not date. Tried, found it. Not... What's the word? I don't even know. I mean, fulfilling, satisfying.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I don't know. It's just I was not good at what felt like dating is. Dating is a bit of a performance, I think. Right. Isn't it? Like, I mean, it's initially like that's and I think that's just like really stressed me out. I never had an approach. So trying to like, I really longed for that kind of connection, that kind of intimacy.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I think just as anybody else, you know, kind of something that my show, You, has been about, which is like the really toxic misconceptions we have about,
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
like modern love mythology the way that a relationship should be the way that you should feel um like it does to watch titanic you know what i mean like that like so i so i wanted that and so it's so i also had a very long and difficult relationship in my teen years um that marked me. And I actually remember thinking when I got out of it at 19, I was just like, that was a way to start it all.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Ooh, I wonder what effects it's going to have on me. You know, I wonder, so I, um, but then I found myself in my twenties, three different long-term relationships. The third one was with my wife and it's, you know,
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I don't know. The truth is I don't know anything about what it's like actually, but I can only speak as a person who hears about it.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Here's a platform upon which to skewer yourself.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
No. No. I mean, no. I would wear. I would wear. So, I mean, the real answer. I have like three pairs of pants that I wear on rotation. Two of them are in all of the TikToks I've ever made. Or in any of my pockets. I mean, it's just there's green pants and there's gray pants.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Is it ever casual? Show me somebody who really, really, truly is casual about it. I'll wait. I'll wait. Not that they act casual about it. That they feel casual about it. I'll wait. Please, I would like to see it in the comments.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I like, what was I even thinking? That's a nice...
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I'm telling you that he doesn't understand the ways in which it is not casual for him either.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
about that that whole thing yeah that's sorry so i you know i am sorry to women on that one i can't apologize for men but i'm just saying like that is that is the whole like what is that too like he's just not that into you that whole thing that like what that okay so if i if i venture something here
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
One of the reasons I didn't like dating was because of what it seemed like young men, boys, men need to sort of, how they need to behave and act, which always felt real corrosive and toxic and coarse and just calloused. At a very young age, if I'm representative of anything that can be generalized, it seemed...
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
that it was important and necessary for me as a man to like, you know, it's such a dumb old term that so many young people will be like, what did you just say? But like, so your wild oats, you know, that kind of thing. I don't know, what would you say now? I sound like an 80 year old. What would you say?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
So, I'm not gonna say it again. You're like, okay, say it one more time for me, please.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Your wild, it sounds so dumb. Sow your wild oats. When I have to say it slowly and break it down.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, sow your wild oats, like to have sex with a lot of women.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Well, we think of it like this. You're a gardener and you've got a handful of seed and you're just casting it out into the wilderness.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Again, again, show me anyone who's able to have it. Truly. And I'm saying, I'm not just saying who does it.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
That's actually, I've thought about this. I'm not sure exactly how I saw myself. I think, well, what I can be sure about is that I was in that particular period of 12, 13, 14, I was a bit horrified by like very, very, very self-conscious, extremely self-conscious.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I feel like you have to always be learning new levels of listening. Because
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
when you get past the, you know, it's anywhere from the six months to two year mark when the juices, so to speak, the chemicals have like sort of run their course, you may have had something that could be like wildly intoxicating, in some cases that's true, in some cases it may be less or somewhere in between, but you know, studies show about six to 24 months, that runs its course, then you have to
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
enter into a different kind of relationship. One that we don't see a lot. You know, we don't see it modeled a lot, hardly ever. You know, for reasons that have to do more with like what it takes to tell a good story than reality, you know, in movies and TV and books and stuff. So then you have to think to yourself like, well, what is a relationship for? Not just like, what am I in this for?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
What is a relationship for? That's also a question I pose. What is a relationship for? Not just what is it doing for you? What are relationships for? And at some point, I think you just have to realize that you're developing your own narratives and biases that have to be kind of constantly reshaped. You have to check in with them. And so it just means, it's just another level of listening.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And then once you get into parenting, it's... It just adds a level of complexity that's really beautiful and rewarding. When you're parenting, actually, sometimes it can be really practical stuff. We have to schedule time for any kind of intimacy we want to have. If we want to go out, that needs to be in that calendar. And you have to find childcare. It's all this stuff. It's very real.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And that can actually be a surprising amount of work.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Well, I didn't. And I mean, I think, so like the, when we first met, it was kind of, it was immediate. And before we had time to think i think we just we wanted to be together in in the deepest way and i wanted to be there for her son um in whatever way was best his father's always been in his life um
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I mean, probably mostly the way that I looked and then also the way that I sounded. So those are the two.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But then the cultural dating laws, which I never abided by, I never understood, but you were pressuring me. I was like, I need to sow my wild oats. What am I doing with this woman with a child? But, you know, I was 28, I think, maybe 27. And I really did think. Is it right for me to be getting into a relationship with a woman who has a child? So the stakes were always significant there.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
We both felt that. And so we both actually, after an immediate intense connection and not thinking about it, we then sort of like, we need to think about this more.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And what, I only felt that I was ready once I felt confident to like leave all that, all these notions about what it is to be a man, what it is to date, what I needed to do, who I needed to be sexually once I was able to start really leaving that behind.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Well, before my voice changed, like anybody, I had a bit of a high and nasally voice. Um, and so also I moved to LA to become an actor when I was 12. So I was simultaneously pursuing, you know, this career. And I mean, I had no idea what I was getting into, but I think that made me self-conscious.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, it's... There's a spiritual component to this, which is really the thing that allowed it to happen. So she and I, we happened to sort of become sober around the same time. We were picking up meditation and prayer and really trying to live with a different sort of framework, you know, independent of one another, but this was happening kind of at the same time.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And I think that was what even created like, the opportunity or the conditions for us to be like, we're dealing with a lot of ways of thinking that are not our own. Some of those ways of thinking are putting a lot of pressure on us
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
to to conform in a way that we've seen before to either be together in a way that we've seen or to not be together in a way that we've seen and so and i think i think like maybe the world is ready for a lot of new relationships like where people are discovering something and i think in some way like we did we discovered something uh
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Like if I had advice for young people, it risks being simplistic. You could take it a lot of ways and I guess it could be misused. But like I think young people now, we waste a lot of time worrying about relationships rather than like being in them and trying. We waste a lot of time in fear and hesitation and trying to imagine what the other person's thinking.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Like when is that ever going to happen? You don't know. You've never known. Stop trying to act like you've ever known. Never once have you read that person's mind. It's not going to start now, you know? I mean, like, I don't know, just the way that relationships function, at least from a pop culture perspective, I think is like so crazy dysfunctional, you know?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
It's all this. Joe is the embodiment of not realizing any of this.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Am I overacting? Yeah, I'm... No, I mean, I think if anything, I feel like I'm finally coming of age as an actor. Maybe. We'll see.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Mm-hmm. You said before that you think- It was not, I should say, it was not such a resolute no.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I was interested in the premise far more because it was, yeah, it was a different kind of role. I mean, people love to draw the similarities and I'm responsible for drawing some of them between Dan and Joe, but I mean, they're not the same. Like, Joe is the show. He is the lens through which everything happens.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
so being in that position is a completely different experience as an actor you get to do a whole lot more um and because of the depths to which he goes there's just a lot a lot more of the spectrum to to explore as an actor so it was a you know I knew it was an incredible opportunity when I saw it.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
So, I mean, everybody, I think a lot of people go through this and a lot of times it's just, it just is what it is. I was, I was pretty chubby and there was a period where I was fat, you know, and that happened to have a big impact on my, on the way I felt about myself. It did. It really did.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
At the same time, I wasn't sure that I wanted to give expression to this kind of character for an undisclosed period of time. Had it been a film, I'd be like, all right, three to six months, done.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, so now I just want them to think of me as two.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Sometimes, no. I mean, at this point, like, you know, I'm done, which is crazy, by the way. Wow. It became real easy, even early on. But easy even the way like, you know, you might be a marathon runner, but by the end of a marathon, you're like, I'm about to fall over. You know, that's the way it was easy.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
It was, I mean, by the end of every season, by the middle of every season, I usually had back problems because all the expression of rage is just like a lot. It was like running, yeah, it was like running a marathon. It was highly athletic every time. Very physical, you know? A lot of, not a lot of speaking on camera.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
So a lot of just, you know, coming into my body, physicality of performance was really lovely to explore over the years. And then the voiceover was interesting too. Finding that, I feel like I really found it in the sixth episode of season one. Yeah. where that episode was almost all voiceover and then silent acting.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And I actually had a mask of prosthetics on because he'd been badly beaten at the end of that, of the previous episode. So what was your question?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
So actually I would say in some ways it's quite, fun, there's levels to it. Day-to-day basis, kind of fun, kind of taxing, or it can be very taxing, really interesting moments of strangeness that are fun to explore.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Overall, it's been quite an endurance test in a way because of just the level of commitment that it takes and then choosing to speak about them in a way publicly, which I think like just adds a level of responsibility to the whole thing. So, you know, it's just, it's like, it's a lot.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I mean, it's not without its, you know, anything is going to be, you cannot land a six season or five, five season series. You're going to fumble here and there, but I think where it really matters now, unfortunately here, I can't talk about it in a way that's like more substantive, you know, cause I wouldn't want to spoil it for you either. Please don't.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But it's, I think it's very satisfying for a lot of meaningful reasons.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I would want to give him a really long hug. I would want to be the man, the male figure, the role model in his life that he somehow did not seem to have up until way too late. I'd want to hold him first so that, as you know, that Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars song, it's been stuck in my head so much. I want to hold you just for a while. Die with a smile. Okay.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, yeah. Well, and for me, you know, the truth is like I was a pretty constitutionally skinny kid and it was this period where my parents' marriage was falling apart. We lived, we were really isolated. We lived in the middle of... we were on a mountain in outside of a town called Issaquah in Washington state. Um, it might be quite developed now, but in the mid nineties it was not.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I would love to play music, but you know, I got to find the right people for that. I would, I would hold him just for a while. And I would have to get back into the time machine. So then I would die with a smile. I don't know that I could say, you know, what a 12 year old needs to hear and will actually listen to is not necessarily what we would say.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
so i don't know you know i mean the the essence of what everyone always says is basically like it's going to be okay like you're going to be okay and i would want to communicate that but i don't know how he would hear it so i think i would just hold him and just let him feel like not only that you're okay but like this is the point if you haven't
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
If there's anything you're missing, if there's anything you're feeling, a way that you're hurting, this is the point. You have to learn somehow. You know?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
And, uh, we had, we had moved very suddenly from the East coast, very far away. So, uh, so, and my cat died on the third day of moving there, just didn't come home. So I was like eight, I think. And, um, and I was just, you know, had no social outlet vibe at home was, uh, Yeah, it was, you know, what happens when divorce is like quite needed. So yeah, I was, I was sad as, as kids can be.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I think as many kids, you know, are, as you're kind of coming into your consciousness and
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, that's that's that part. Definitely.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah. Well, or I mean, it's normal for you don't know it's not normal.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I know the green pants. So I think I got them right before the pandemic. This is true. And then, you know, fatherhood, pandemic, the fact that my job, I'm never wearing my own clothing when I'm working. I mean, you know what they are? They're J.Crew. Unpaid, I wouldn't ever. I'm not a J.Crew boy at all, but they're just pants.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
That's an interesting question, because I... From 12 years old on, my memories feel a bit void of parents, even though my mom was present. I mean, I moved with my mom to LA. In fact, when I visit here now, it's surreal when I'm in places that I used to be when I was very young.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah. I mean, a lot of actor kids, this is the case. Because why is a kid going to truly pick up and leave with one parent? You're not leaving a flourishing family life behind. So that tended to be the pattern.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
yeah i mean it's so early so early i don't even know when i was 14 i i i saw my um my parents dance together it was long after they've been divorced uh It was at a function for a show I was on. And they danced together for one song. And they sort of hugged.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But what it was, it demonstrated a closeness that I didn't realize until years later when I was like, why do I remember this and think about it every now and then? Because it made me uncomfortable. It made me feel a type of way that I couldn't identify. But that is to say they demonstrated a closeness that I had like, you know, never seen them have.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
You know, there are two people who they came together like, who, you know, their parents and the parents, like they're a generation where like they didn't have, they had so little modeling of like, not only did they not have modeling, they didn't have like the consciousness that we have now around, you know, relationship dynamics, like listening and I'm saying, I'm sorry.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
You know, like these things didn't exist. You know, they just, they like, it's amazing that they stayed together long enough to have me and that they were like, yeah, and also let's keep doing that. Like, I don't, you know, they don't have a good answer for it. They, yeah.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, well, actually, so this is, I think, at least for boys, I don't know. I know that it's not just me. I mean, I actually was... Because I was starved for many kinds of intimacy, the one kind that I understood, didn't understand it, was... sexual and romantic intimacy.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
So, I mean, I think as soon as those, I was gonna try to think of a word other than juices, but you know, those chemicals were flowing. That's when I just craved that, I mean, you know, and again, show me a teenager who doesn't really, I mean, I think it's of course quite typical, but I think particularly for people who grow up in homes where there isn't a lot of intimacy, I think what they crave
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
is that you know you crave what you see on the in the notebook or whatever we didn't have that demo you the titanic you know i'm not a romantic movie or romantic comedy person at all but but see but the titanic or no it's a titanic isn't it it's not the titanic so titanic um like i loved and i didn't see it a bunch of everybody did but i just thought like Good Lord, I wanted that.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Love comes in so many forms. So many forms. And it's actually tragic for us all that we have conflated it so completely with just sex. But, you know, I mean, from a very young age, that's what I wanted.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Who could be? Yeah, as ready as we could be.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
The juices. The juices. Let me just go ahead and reach over here for my tea and bring it on the long trip around.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
This is I'm going to go right there. I want that thing.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Yeah, well, it would be just the it would be the. the vibe the the there's the saint calling it coldness i feels a bit unforgiving to my parents it's it's not because it that sounds like there's um intent behind it you know and awareness but it's just uh just uh there wasn't a lot of life at home there wasn't a lot of life
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I mean, yeah, there's, of course, plenty of nuance in there. But the basic principle you're pointing to is what I was saying. Like, that's all it is. It's like you're constantly, as a parent, you're constantly being brought in touch with, oh... Yeah, I didn't have that. I mean, you know, I've said this elsewhere a few times.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But the first time that I needed that I felt that I needed to say I'm sorry to my now four and a half year old, I think he was three, maybe freshly three. It was a minor moment. He would not get in the car seat, as any parent knows. Anybody who hasn't had kids is like, oh, shut up about the fucking car seats. Yeah. Is it really? Yeah. It's like, yeah, it can be hard.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I really got to stretch for this coaster here.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
It's really. And by the way, it's reasonable for them to not want to get in a car seat. They're strapped in. And if they think it's going to be two hours, to them, that's a lifetime. That is a lifetime. You see how many phases a kid, a three-year-old goes through in two hours. You want them to sit strapped in the entire time.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
I mean, so I'm with three-year-olds on this, but I had to get him in and I, and I started to get impatient, you know, go figure. And, um, but the key thing to remember were for me, like fatherhood, parenthood until about two and a half, it was like, In terms of losing my patience, it didn't happen. It didn't happen. I'll lose patience with my wife. Hi, baby. Sorry. Love you. Love you so much.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
But with a child that small, I mean, they're just like, what are you gonna do? So I noticed that I was losing my patience in a way that was like, I was speaking to him in a way that I'd never spoken to before, which is kind of short, you know? Like a little dickish, you know?
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Well, so my wife is a doula. So birth is a big part of our world. For me, a 38-year-old man, I think I'm probably...
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
Dick of the century, okay? He was being crazy.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
You're the adult. Yeah. So I was starting to take it as though he's not three. And that's what we all do as parents. Eventually, you lose perspective and you're treating them like somebody who's much older. And that's not fair. That's not fair to them at all. So I was being really impatient with him. getting him into the car seat.
Call Her Daddy
Penn Badgley: Dan Humphrey vs Joe Goldberg
At this point, I don't remember what, I think I definitely wasn't being like, you know, I wasn't doing that, that's a bit rough, but I was speaking in a way that was just, you know.