Peter Lacaillade

We sold some of our direct lending private credit from the vintages of 18, 19 years.

20, you know, stuff where there could be the underlying companies, maybe weren't the best vintages of private equity.

We got par and the tightest spreads.

We got par from an interval fund buyer.

And I think that the risk is not that there's like a blow up or catastrophe or something like that.

it's that it's an underwhelming experience because you also have the friction of the various fees involved that are going to drag things down and then the other risk and we saw this would be re is people think that they have quarterly liquidity their gates and oftentimes when things happen in markets everyone rushes for liquidity at the same time and they can't get it i think that people need to be really clear about yes in normal situation you're very likely to be able to get quarterly liquid after

A two year lock, but you have to be prepared for a scenario where you're actually locked up for five, six years.

I would say this is very obvious.

You're getting into a partnership that usually is like a 10 year plus three years.

And then there could be extensions beyond that.

I mean, this is often these things are lasting 15 plus years, which I think is longer than the average marriage.

you really need to know the character of the partner that you're investing in and understand that they're gonna be good partners in good times and bad.

And I think that if you have people who are very focused on themselves, greedy, that can cause real disruption with teams, which can cause firm instability and make for real issues in the underlying stability of the team that you're partnering with for this 10 year plus horizon.

Fortunately, we've had a really great set of partners generally, but where we've had issues, we often back real kind of alphas.

I think that's great, but some of the ones we've had issues with have had controversy around them and

And when they've faltered, people are ready to kick them when they're down and the team isn't cohesive and things like that.

So I think that can be a risk.

And in the due diligence, what's really important is not to get stuck in the echo chamber of doing the on-list calls and talking to the other LPs that are doing the fund.

Because you can get a lot of positivity if you're just listening to the people that are fans.

One thing I really do and continue to do, I was talking about this with my colleague today, is really making sure that we are trying to find contrary views or people who are not doing the fund.