Menu
Sign In Pricing Add Podcast

Peter Van Sant

Appearances

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1010.146

Dr. Joe Miller says he was taking the steps he needed to take.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1022.913

All along, Lourdes stuck by Schwartz, and in January 2004, the couple became engaged. But Lourdes says their happiness was marred by his obsession with Brian Stidham.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1043.424

So suddenly this case is really gaining momentum.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1046.506

And it's headed toward one major suspect, and who is that?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1052.947

But her investigation was about to hit a major roadblock. Dr. Schwartz had an ironclad alibi the night Brian Stidham was murdered.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1065.439

You're certain of that?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1086.963

Detective Jill Murphy now had her sights set on a prime suspect, Dr. Bradley Schwartz. And she wasn't the only woman gunning for him.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1114.375

Months before Brian Stidham's murder, Lourdes broke off her engagement with Dr. Schwartz, tired of his cheating and lies. Now, the murder made her think her ex was also a killer.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1133.847

And Lourdes was not alone in her suspicions.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1141.621

Lisa Goldberg had gone out with Dr. Schwartz only five times, but by that fifth date, she knew something wasn't right. It was October 5th, 2004, the night of Brian Stidham's murder.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1163.949

The friend was introduced as Bruce, an acquaintance from Schwartz's days in rehab.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1180.501

Something's wrong here.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1183.682

Their date, along with Bruce, continued after dinner. First, they stopped at an ATM, and then a series of stops in search of a hotel room. Why are you going to hotels?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1202.151

It didn't make any sense to Lisa, but she didn't become suspicious until Schwartz called her the next day with the news of Brian Stidham's murder.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1247.668

That's when Lisa called police. When Detective Murphy heard Lisa's story, a light went on.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1268.244

Murphy wondered if the man in the restaurant could be the hired killer.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1280.382

Murphy subpoenaed Schwartz's cell phone records, hoping that information would lead her to Bruce. Instead, it led her to this convenience store.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1298.774

Records show Schwartz called here minutes before the murder.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1331.081

Like hospital surgical scrubs?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1333.963

Sounds like a doctor.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1336.264

Did this man look anything like Dr. Bradley Schwartz?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1341.367

Jennifer Dainty's description of the man in scrubs was a turning point in Murphy's investigation. It linked curiously to something Lisa Goldberg had told the detective, a bizarre question Schwartz had asked Bruce at the dinner. What does he say to him?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1367.577

Detective Murphy believed the man in scrubs at the convenience store was the killer. But was he the Bruce who joined Lisa and Dr. Schwartz for dinner?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1389.198

Detectives look for a connection to Dr. Schwartz and caught a break when one of his employees gave them a name, Ronald Bruce Bigger, a former patient. He had a record and a mugshot detectives could show to store clerk Jennifer Dainty.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1424.63

Her murder-for-hire theory got a boost when she confirmed Lisa Goldberg's story. Hotel surveillance video captured Schwartz and Bigger looking for a room, which, according to Murphy, was a small part of the payoff.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1445.626

But Bigger checked out by the time Murphy started looking for him. And now she was worried he might be going after a new target, Lisa. Why are investigators so concerned about you and your safety?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1468.722

Now Detective Murphy had to find Bigger. Was he on the run? Would he kill again?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1484.488

Ten days after the murder, investigators captured Bruce Bigger just outside of Tucson. Later that night, police slapped the cuffs on Dr. Schwartz. He was found at home in bed with yet another woman.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1506.258

Both were charged with murder and conspiracy.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1518.509

Just have a seat. For Lourdes, it was a relief until... I get a phone call, and it's Brad.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1541.135

Lourdes, help me. Calling from a cell phone in the interrogation room, Schwartz begs his former lover turned defense attorney to be his lawyer. Lourdes recalled that conversation for us. I want you to be my attorney.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1558.683

Yes, you can.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1649.016

In the weeks after his arrest, Dr. Schwartz's once secret love life became the talk of the town.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1677.017

It was the station's Confession Wednesday, and women were burning up the phone lines.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1691.545

The calls just kept on coming. We've got to pick up another call. Good morning.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1698.829

As Detective Murphy prepared for trial, she was learning a lot more about Schwartz's past.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1711.205

Is Danny Lopez any relation to Lourdes Lopez?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1719.287

Lourdes introduced her ex-husband to Schwartz. Soon, the two began having secret conversations. Dr. Schwartz gives your ex-husband $5,000. What do you think that money was for?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1741.987

But Detective Murphy couldn't question Danny Lopez because he was dead. Murdered during a drug deal months before Dr. Stidham's murder. But police from that case gave Detective Murphy Lopez's wallet and inside a bombshell. a picture of Dr. Stidham and Dr. Schwartz's business card.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1776.55

Detective Murphy's investigation had unearthed a lethal pattern of deceit and rage that would soon be presented at the separate murder trials of Dr. Schwartz and his alleged hitman, Bruce Biggar. The two men would be up against a woman beyond their control, known for her intimidating style. You often wear a dagger.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

179.741

When 37-year-old Dr. Brian Stidham was found murdered in the parking lot outside his office on October 5th, 2004, it sent a chill through this desert metropolis.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1808.654

Prosecutor Sylvia Lafferty has always had a flair for drama. Here, she's acting in the 1960s television western High Chaparral.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1825.586

And now, on the first day of Dr. Bradley Schwartz's murder trial, Lafferty once again takes center stage.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1860.714

Defense attorney Rick Stortz III says the state's case is weak.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1883.863

One by one, former patients and lovers of Dr. Schwartz take the stand. Some asked that we not show their faces.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1916.483

All eyes are now on Lourdes Lopez as she takes the stand, including those of her former fiance, Dr. Schwartz.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1934.858

But the former assistant DA was about to use Dr. Schwartz's own words against him.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1961.351

And prosecutors say Bruce Bigger, a drifter with a drug habit, was someone else Schwartz could manipulate.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

1983.502

The state believes Bigger killed Dr. Stidham shortly after the doctor set his office alarm at 7.26 p.m. Then Bigger took off in Stidham's car, drove six miles, and dumped the vehicle. What does Bigger do then?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

201.855

For Detective Jill Murphy, the investigation began like any other.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2014.827

The prosecution presents bank surveillance video from the day after the murder showing Schwartz cashing a $10,000 check. Look closely as Dr. Schwartz makes a call on his cell phone. Prosecutor Richard Platt.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2053.925

And two of Bruce Bigger's drug buddies testify that shortly after the murder, the usually struggling drifter was living large.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2067.013

Lots of cash. It was a lot of money.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2073.279

But Brick Stortz argues that Bruce Bigger's sudden windfall of cash has nothing to do with a payoff from Brad Schwartz.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2091.963

And Stortz has his own opinion of the state's theory of a man bent on revenge.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2115.673

Stortz says the cops got it all wrong. They should have been focusing on this man, Dennis Walsh, a convicted carjacker who had been known to use a knife.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2139.656

But the judge deals a blow to the defense, allowing only limited testimony on Dennis Walsh. Why shouldn't we believe that Dennis Walsh is the man behind this murder?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2172.162

Throughout Dr. Schwartz's murder trial, Dr. Stidham's family sat in disbelief.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

219.614

At first glance, the well-known and respected pediatric eye surgeon appeared to be the victim of a random crime.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2201.018

But it's the lack of tangible evidence on Bruce Bigger that Brick Stortz zeroes in on. If Bruce Bigger stabbed Dr. Stidham, why wasn't there any blood on him?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2233.348

The state makes its case not on blood evidence, but on a partial DNA sample they say Bigger left on the radio knob of Stidham's stolen Lexus.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2255.077

The state's expert testifies that the odds of the DNA belonging to someone other than Bruce Biggar are overwhelming.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2268.32

But in a dramatic turn of events, a defense expert forces Sylvia Lafferty to concede that the math was wrong.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2281.698

It's a big whoops, though, right?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2290.864

If the DNA is now called into question, maybe Bruce Biggar's not involved. Maybe the jury now has reasonable doubt for a not guilty verdict.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2311.789

Stortz then attacks the very heart of the state's case. The timeline that Stidham died shortly after setting his office alarm at 7.26 p.m. His expert says Stidham may have died after 9 p.m.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2349.753

Stewart says his client is only guilty of having a big mouth.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2371.823

Dr. Bradley Schwartz never takes the stand.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2383.293

After nine weeks of trial, closing arguments.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2414.355

The jurors take their time. They have been deliberating for five days.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2427.145

Finally, the jury reaches a decision. And it's a surprise for both sides.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2443.226

the jury is hung on the count of first degree murder.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

245.276

It wasn't far into her investigation that Detective Murphy discovered that Dr. Brian Stidham was adored by the Tucson community.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2459.857

But Schwartz is found guilty of conspiring with Bruce Biggar to murder Dr. Brian Stidham. Four weeks later, Dr. Schwartz, the once prominent doctor who threw it all away because of a misguided sense of revenge, is sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. But it's little consolation to Dr. Brian Stidham's family.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2497.853

And all who have been touched by this tragedy are haunted by the what-ifs. As an assistant DA, you must have taken some sort of oath in office to enforce the laws to protect the people of Pima County.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

2512.787

And you didn't do that.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

265.334

Today, hundreds of people... Two months after Dr. Stidham's death, his sister Andrea says his patients and friends paid tribute to him with a memorial walk in his favorite place, Sabino Canyon.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

300.363

Born and raised in Longview, Texas, Brian Stidham was the only son of Joyce and Max Stidham. How would you describe your son?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

324.192

After graduating with honors from Harvard Medical School, Dr. Brian Stidham began his career in Dallas, where he met his wife, Daphne. What was the wedding like?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

340.569

In 2001, Brian Stidham gets an offer to move to the desert. The offer is to work here in Tucson alongside one of the finest eye surgeons in the country. Stidham and his wife visit, fall in love with the beauty here, and decide to take the job. So this was a move he was really looking forward to.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

364.427

The dream job was with a practice called Arizona Specialty Eye Care.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

374.023

Where Brian teamed up with a renowned surgeon named Bradley Schwartz. So, very successful business.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

382.095

And growing.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

385.276

Office manager Lori Espinoza says in 2001, Schwartz's practice was pulling in more than a million dollars a year.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

407.591

Dr. Stidham's impact was seen immediately.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

418.435

But Laurie says the doctors had a different approach.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

441.331

Nearly a year into the job, Dr. Stidham decided to start his own practice.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

453.248

Friend and colleague Dr. Joe Miller remembers when Stidham began seeing patients at his new office. And he was doing well. He had a good location and patients were coming to see him in droves. As his practice continued to expand, so did his family. Daphne gave birth to a daughter in August of 2003. Family was putting in roots here? Yes. developing a circle of friends?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

489.445

But those dreams were shattered on a night in October 2004. When the news is broken to Daphne that her husband is dead, how does she react?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

516.418

And this investigation was about to get even more unusual. What was Daphne doing that night? What did your officers learn?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

528.286

Did that make them suspicious?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

547.17

Just hours after the murder of Dr. Brian Stidham, his wife Daphne was ruled out as a suspect after questioning by detectives. But the case took an unexpected twist when they asked Daphne a routine question. Did her husband have any enemies?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

575.834

Detective Murphy initially discounted the comments. After all, Schwartz and Stidham hadn't worked together in almost two years.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

594.79

Besides, Murphy had already developed a theory of the crime. Stidham had been ambushed in a violent carjacking.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

613.783

The crime scene yielded few clues. Did you find a murder weapon?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

624.215

There's a clue in the mystery surrounding a murder... But in less than 24 hours, there was a break in the case when investigators found Dr. Stidham's Lexus just six miles from the crime scene.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

643.55

News of the murder generated a slew of tips to police. One of them came from one of Brad Schwartz's ex-girlfriends.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

663.443

But why would Schwartz want Stidham dead? Murphy's team began an intensive investigation that soon discovered that Bradley Schwartz was having problems long before Brian Stidham arrived.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

682.93

According to office manager Lori Espinoza, Dr. Schwartz, who was married with three children, had developed a wandering eye.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

703.095

Espinoza believes Dr. Schwartz had affairs with at least 50 different women and sometimes even had sex in his office.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

718.863

As her investigation continued, Detective Murphy got a call from yet another woman, Lourdes Lopez, an assistant DA and a single mother who met Dr. Schwartz when her daughter became his patient in December of 2000.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

751.098

Did you fall in love with Dr. Schwartz?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

754.819

But while Lourdes Lopez was falling for Dr. Schwartz, Dr. Schwartz was falling apart.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

770.613

By 2001, Schwartz claimed to be suffering from chronic back pain and had become secretly addicted to Vicodin. His chronic pain problems soon became... Lori Espinoza's. How often did he have you fill these prescriptions?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

790.81

At its height, how many pills a month are we talking about?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

798.292

Lourdes knew about Schwartz's use of painkillers, but she says she never knew he was addicted. She even let him fill two prescriptions under her name. Was he getting high off of these pain killers?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

820.194

In November of 2001, Dr. Schwartz was juggling both his worsening addiction and his booming medical practice. That's when he hired Brian Stidham.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

836.684

But just four weeks after Brian Stidham's arrival, armed agents from the Drug Enforcement Agency raided Schwartz's office.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

854.205

Why did you lie?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

865.206

But the lies don't protect anyone. Nine months after the DEA raid, both Dr. Schwartz and Lourdes Lopez are indicted for their roles in the prescription drug scam. Dr. Schwartz has his medical license suspended and is ordered into a drug rehab facility. Lourdes loses her job in the DA's office. Both agree to plea bargains that keep them out of jail.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

893.434

Why didn't you at that time say, you've been dishonest with me about these drugs. You've been using me, manipulating me to commit an illegal act. I'm the assistant DA of Pima County. How can you do this to me and walk away from this guy?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

922.717

After the Schwartz indictment, Brian Stidham had enough. He gave 30 days notice and made plans to open his own practice. What does Dr. Schwartz think of the fact that his employee, Dr. Stidham, has now made the decision to leave, to start his own practice?

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

948.801

But before Stidham was able to quit, an enraged Brad Schwartz called his office manager, Lori, from rehab.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

963.234

Schwartz was left to deal with his addiction and legal troubles.

48 Hours

An Eye For Murder

981.212

By all accounts, Schwartz's life was in turmoil. His wife filed for divorce, and he was broke. He's lost his income. He's lost his medical license. He's lost his wife. He's lost his kids. Almost a year would pass before the medical board returned Schwartz's license. In August of 2003, he set about the slow process of rebuilding his practice.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1038.867

Nach ihrer ersten Ausflüge in Kalifornien unter dem Namen Natalie Bowman wollte Esther Reed mehr.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1061.548

In fact, Esther wanted to go to Harvard. She asked her professor, Mitch Avila, to write her a letter of recommendation. But there was a catch.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1099.996

Es war Esther noch nicht die wichtigste Identitätsverletzung. Und eine, die sie als schuldig war. Was war das? Brooke Henson. Brooke Henson. Eine junge Frau aus Südamerika, die vermutlich verletzt wurde, aber verurteilt wurde.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1125.393

And I would have a new life. In 2004, Esther fulfilled her childhood dream. She applied and was accepted to Harvard University. It's Extension School anyway.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1143.206

Esther hatte große Pläne für ihre neue Identität. Als Brooke Henson wollte sie in eine Gerichtsschule. Sie wollte schon seit sie sehr klein war, ein Arbeiter werden. Esther hat Harvard verarscht, aber sie wollte mehr. Sie hat gut auf der SAT gespielt und hat sich bald auf eine andere Ivy League Schule eingeladen.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1170.896

The high school dropout from Townsend, Montana was in the big leagues. What was it like for you to walk the campus of Columbia University as a full fledged student?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1193.84

Esther financed her new life by acquiring more than $100,000 in fraudulent student loans.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1207.253

After months with no contact, Esther was now back in touch with her friend in California, Bita Shigaghi.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1218.2

Bita besuchte sie am 4. Juli 2005. Hast du sie Brooke oder Natalie genannt? Nein, Natalie.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1225.607

Sie war noch nicht sicher, dass ihr bester Freund ein Kon-Artist war.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1248.418

Didn't like to take pictures?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1258.892

Das selbe 4. Juli war auch das sechste Geburtstag der echten Verlust von Brooke Henson.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1268.458

Ihre Tochter, Lisa Henson, hat einen Vigil gehalten.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1284.819

South Carolina Investigator John Campbell had nearly run out of new leads.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1300.342

Back up at Columbia, the fake Brooke Henson was making the most of her new life. She had a 3.22 GPA, an apartment near Central Park, and was dating a West Point cadet. In den Textbüchern studiertest du Psychologie und Kriminalität. Ja. Und logischerweise würde jemand sagen, was für perfekte zwei Kurse für eine Kon-Frau zu nehmen, um ihre Kreativität zu verbessern.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1328.712

Was für perfekte zwei Kurse für einen Lehrer zu nehmen. Im Juli 2006, nach zwei Jahren in Kolumbien, fühlte ich mich selbstbewusst.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1339.878

Esther hat sich für einen Job eingeladen. Durch einen Hintergrundschritt hat der Mitarbeiter Brooke Henson gegoogelt. Er hat herausgefunden, dass sie eine Missbraucherin war und hat die South Carolina Authorities schnell angerufen.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1358.222

Detective John Campbell war überrascht und skeptisch.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1369.906

Aber dann wieder, das ist genau das, was dieser Hochschulabschluss gemacht hat.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1380.791

Campbell hat einen New Yorker Detektiv gefragt, um Kontakt zu machen.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1386.054

Ich habe gesagt, mein Name ist Brooke Henson. Und sie hat sie ein paar Fragen, die Lisa Henson, Brooks Tochter, vorbereitet hat.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1397.413

Remarkable, Esther got nearly all the answers right.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1403.298

Then, Lisa saw a photo. Is this Brooke? No. You're certain of that?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1416.147

But Lisa and Detective Campbell wanted more information. Technically she is a suspect until we can clear her.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1430.612

Campbell asked a New York detective to call Brooke and request a DNA sample. What are you going through at that moment? Are you panicked? Sure. Esther decided to flee. She quickly went out and rented a U-Haul truck. Als Esther's cons made headlines, she went underground. 48 Hours then set out to find her, hiring renowned private investigator Steve Rombach.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1478.299

Rambam first heads to Esther's old apartment in Manhattan.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1490.63

Steve Rombom schlägt Gold. Das ist das zertifizierte Artikel von Brooke Henson. Ein Papier-Trail von Esthers Leben als Brooke.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1511.107

Und einige ihrer Zielgruppen waren die Männer, mit denen sie verheiratet war. Wie viele Männer glaubst du, dass Esther Reed durchgegangen ist? Ich weiß von etwa einer Dutzend. Was war es an Esther, das sie so attraktiv gemacht hat?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1529.737

Mindestens fünf von Esthers Freundinnen waren Kadetten und Mitfahrerinnen aus West Point und Annapolis. Es gibt Gefühle, dass Esther ihre Verbrechen auf ein ganz neues Niveau nehmen wird.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1570.571

Es war Juli 2006. Nachdem sie ihre Identität als Brooke Hanson, Esther Reed, verlassen hat, ist sie aus New York geflogen. Wo bist du hin?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1584.844

Und dann war sie weg. Aber die Behörden schlossen sich ab. Ein federales Großjury in Südkorea beurteilte dieses Beurteilung, um Esther Reed mit Fälschung von Identitätsverletzungen und Studentenlohn-Fraude zu beurteilen. Mit den vollen investigativen Kräften des Geheimdienstes, der jetzt verabschiedet ist, sah es sich so aus, als würde Esther schnell verhaftet werden.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1612.999

US Attorney Walt Wilkins. Der Fakt, dass Esther einen Passwort unter dem Namen Brooke Hanson bekam, war das ein fadlerischer Fehler für sie?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1631.21

Hot on Esther's trail is 48-hours private investigator Steve Rombom. He tracked Esther all the way from Vermont to Florida to California.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1649.919

Pouring over Esther's old cell phone records, Rombom decided to head for Chicago.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1664.804

Diese Rekorde führten uns zu diesem Mann, Stephen Fouts, einem verurteilten sexuellen Predator. Wir fuhren ihn in seine Lieblingsbar. Stephen Fouts, sagst du? Es gab mehr als 100 Telefonrufe zwischen dir und Esther Reed. Auf deinem Telefon und ihres. Fouts sagt, eine Frau namens Wanda hat seinen Telefon benutzt, um Esther zu beantworten.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1694.406

No, I don't. The Fouts' lead is a dead end. So Rombom next zeroes in on Steven Donald, an old boyfriend of Esters, also in Chicago.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1712.156

After observing Donald in his apartment, Rombom coaxes him outside. We then decided to move in ourselves. Here we go. Do it. Steven, Peter Van Sand. Are you in contact with Esther Reed today?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1732.079

Do you have any idea where she is? No. Sie verstehen, dass sie in illegalen Aktivitäten involviert sein könnte und dass diejenigen, die mit ihr verabschiedet sind, wahrscheinlich beantwortet werden. Und ich gebe Ihnen die Möglichkeit, uns zu erzählen, was Sie von ihr wissen.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1755.251

But Donald goes back on his word. Authorities say he refused to cooperate. And while Rambam was in Chicago, Esther was still at large.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1777.1

Auf der föderalen Seite ist US-Marshal John Bridge.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1789.967

Um diese neue Identität zu entdecken, muss er Witz mit Esther vergleichen.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1800.043

Und wenn die Punkte verbunden sind und Esther's Pattern klar wird, sind die Behörden alarmiert. Esther hat eine Reihe von militärischen Männern. Aber niemand weiß, warum.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1826.343

In den Staaten fokussierten sich die Investitionen auf Kyle Bringle, einen Westpoint-Kadett, mit dem Esther romantisch beteiligt war. Kyle Bringle.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1870.509

Mit Kyle Brengel hast du IMs, in denen du ihn fragst, was er studiert. Wenn er dir diese Informationen geben könnte, inklusive potenzieller Kampfpläne. Warum hast du ihn dafür gefragt?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1887.798

But her instant messages with Kyle say otherwise. Kyle, training briefing. Got lots of maps and timelines. Esther, is it for a class or something real? Kyle, yeah, for my military science class. Just like what I'll do as an infantry platoon leader. Esther, I want to see it when you're finished. Kyle, I'll send it to you.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1935.914

Again, her IMs to Kyle Bringle conflict with her story. Esther, I'd so love to be James Bond. Kyle, really? You want to be a spy? Esther, oh please, that would be a dream job.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1956.271

Why shouldn't I think you're just BSing me right now? That the master con woman is just conning me and conning this audience.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

1971.903

Frank Abagnale, der selbst Sex verwendet hat, um Informationen zu bekommen, als er ein Kon-Mann war, denkt, er weiß, warum Esther mit so vielen militärischen Studenten romantisch beteiligt war.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

200.587

Could you tell me who you are? What is your name?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2000.427

Aber Esther hat ihre Beziehungen nicht nur mit Militärmännern begrenzt.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2016.52

Und sie hat sie überall gefunden. Um die ganze Welt zu reisen, war Esther mit Männern zusammen. In Connecticut, New York und Florida.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2037.204

In February 2008, investigators get a huge break. They link Esther to a car purchased in the greater Chicago area.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

205.401

Bist du sicher?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2056.971

Sie tun es, aber in einer Art und Weise, die niemand jemals erwartet hätte.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2081.648

Despite being hunted by the Secret Service and US Marshals... Esther Reed could be anywhere right now. ...investigated by a US attorney and hounded by private investigator Steve Rombom... I think Saddam Hussein changed his sleeping arrangements less often than she did.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2099.174

...Esther Reed was still at large, more than a year and a half after her escape from New York, still changing identities to keep one step ahead of her pursuers.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2117.762

Was war die Name, die du geworden bist?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2120.543

Jennifer Meyers.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2125.105

Ähm, ich fuhr. Unbekannt zu Esther entdeckten die Berichterstatter ihre neue Identität. Und US-Marshal John Bridge war schnell am Schluss.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2140.274

Und Tinley Park, ein Dorf in Chicago, war am 2. Februar 2008 der schlechteste Ort im Land, um Esther zu sein. Was hast du da gemacht? Ich habe in einem Hotel geblieben.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2156.522

Die Polizisten suchten überall in der Stadt nach fünf Frauen, die in einem Lane Bryant Store verurteilt wurden. Der Täter war noch nicht weg.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2171.01

Police began cruising parking lots, running checks on all out-of-state license plates. Just by chance, they came across Esther's car.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2183.804

You opened the door and who's standing there?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

221.754

Esther Reed hat 48 Stunden Zeit, ihr erstes Interview zu machen. Die Situationen, wie wir Esther gefunden haben, werden klar werden, als wir dieses Geheimnis entdecken.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2219.758

Nach neun langen Jahren hat Esther mit ihrer Schwester Edna von einem Telefon aus dem Gefängnis gesprochen.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2253.082

Ann Fitz was Esther's defense attorney.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2266.358

Social Anxiety Disorder is a very common phobia and defined as an excessive or irrational fear of being watched, judged and criticized by others. How convenient. Social Anxiety Disorder. Boy, it seems to explain all the bad decisions you made in your life.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2294.847

Esthers Defense will never be heard at trial.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2317.899

identity theft charges but refuses to detail her many scams.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2329.545

I just plead guilty to four felonies. Esther, now 30 years old, is sentenced to 51 months in federal prison. In your opinion, was Esther Reed a spy?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2351.409

Federal Investigators concluded that Kyle Bringle did nothing wrong. And the Lane Bryant Killer has never been found. Do you think Esther Reed knows the difference between right and wrong?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2371.756

Brooke Henson's Aunt Lisa had to live with the pain of not knowing what happened to her niece, who remains missing.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2392.789

And if I could fix it, I would. I don't know how to make it better. Esther agreed to this interview after her sentencing. Es gibt nur eine Frage, die sich alle überlegen. Viele fragen sich, warum man das nicht nur als Esther Reed machen könnte. Du hattest so viel Intellekt, so viel Talent, so viel Fähigkeit. Mach das einfach selbst.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2425.606

Nach fast einer Dekade von ihrer Familie, der Glauben und sich selbst, was wird von Esther Reed?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

244.591

Privat-Investigator Steve Rombom, der 48 Stunden arbeitete, und US-Marshal John Bridge suchten alle nach der elusiven Esther Reed.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

2447.952

Wer wirst du in diesem neuen Leben sein?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

262.079

Nach dem Stehlen von vielen Identitäten und dem Rennen von vielen brillanten Verbrechen, hat diese Master-Con-Frau einen Platz auf der US-Secret-Services 10 Best-Wanted-Liste gewonnen.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

280.214

Walt Wilkins, ein US-Autor, hat die Hintergründe von Esther untersucht. Wie gut ist Esther? Sie ist gut. Sie ist wirklich gut. Um zu verstehen, was Esther Reed macht, reisen wir zu ihrer Heimatstadt in Townsend, Montana.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

306.825

Und wenn du blickst, verpasst du es.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

316.42

Edna hat Esther vor fast einer Dekade nicht persönlich gesehen, aber sie hat uns das Familienhaus gezeigt. Was haben wir hier?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

335.409

Der Trunk ist der erste in einer Reihe von Zeichen, die unsere Investition entdecken wird. Das ist Esther's Dress. Wie alt ist Esther? Ich würde sagen, sie ist vier oder fünf.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

353.934

Das war eine Fotografie. Sie war in dieser Box.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

364.217

Was geht dir durch den Kopf, wenn du darauf schaust?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

381.863

Nach dem Divorz von Esther's Eltern, fühlte sie sich wie ein Ausgleich.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

401.747

Jim Theriault war Esthers Englischlehrer und Debatte-Coach.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

419.88

Hat sie mit dir argumentiert? Ja, sie hat an mir gearbeitet. Hat sie diese Argumente gewonnen? Sie hat sie gewonnen. E.J. Reed ist Esthers Bruder. Sie waren sehr nahe und E.J. fühlte Esthers Brillanz jeden Tag, besonders als die beiden Chess spielten. Sie blutete mich weg. Ich meine, ich konnte nicht mal eine Flasche für sie halten.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

448.814

Aber so klug wie sie war, fuhr Esther aus der Hochschule und fuhr mit ihrer Mutter nach Seattle. Dann, 1998, fuhr Esthers Mutter weg. Meine Mutter liebte mich immer nur.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

479.449

Esther's Metamorphosis from small town girl to big city con woman had begun. And so did her life of crime.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

498.284

The next matter is State of Washington versus Esther Reed. During this period, Esther stole a co-worker's purse. Guilty. Esther even took Ednas purse and drained her checking account of thousands of dollars. It was like somebody slugged me in the stomach.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

546.396

I never saw her again. Esther Reed had ceased to exist. By 1999, Esther Reed knew she needed to leave town.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

576.837

Now a convicted criminal with family problems, 21-year-old Esther decided it was time to ditch her old life and find a new identity.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

595.37

Und es war an dieser Zeit, während dieser Zeit, dass du die Entscheidung gemacht hast, Natalie Fischer zu werden?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

606.812

Erkennst du die echte Natalie Fischer, die Schwester von Esthers alten Freund? Sieh sie dir freundlich aus?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

618.308

Quiet, but cunning. Before long, Esther had gotten a hold of Natalie's social security number and began using it to rip her off.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

637.127

Esther got a driver's license in Natalie's name and proceeded to live as Natalie. Esther left Seattle in 2000 and spent much of the next two years traveling cross country in a car like this. in günstigen Motels zu bleiben. Aber trotz ihres lebensweiten und fehlenden Verbrechens wollte noch ein Teil von Esther einen Weg zum Erfolg finden und ein Ort, wo sie wirklich gehörte.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

679.841

Forced to live by her wits, Esther needed a way to make money any way she could. She perfectly forged these J.C. Penny receipts and used them to return items for more than they were worth. Esther pocketed tens of thousands of dollars. I'm not going to discuss money of any sort. Okay, but you managed to make some money, somehow.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

706.508

Sie hat mehr als überlebt, sie hat sich verändert. Sie hat Gewicht verloren und hat Kosmetik-Suchsen gemacht. Wer ist diese Frau?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

719.353

Sie war eine sehr nette Person, sie ist sehr freundlich. Zwei Jahre später hat sie Brandy Olson getroffen. In einer Debatte in Tempe, Arizona. Brandy sagt, Natalie Fischer hatte immer viel Geld und eine klare Erklärung, woher sie kam.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

766.644

Brandy war auf einem College-Debate-Team. Und Natalie nutzte ihren neuen Freund, um Leute an Debattournamenten zu treffen.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

780.913

Esthers Ruse hat funktioniert. Sie hat den Debatte-Coach John Bruschke getroffen. Und 2002 hat er Natalie auf die Debatte eingeladen. in Cal State Fullerton. ...whether it's embracing Micha or not... ...and asked her to join his team. She agreed, but by the time she got there, she had a different name. Natalie was very guarded about her past.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

806.066

I mean, I once in fact asked her the question, you know, is your last name Fischer or Bowman? While you were at Cal State Fullerton, you make a decision to change your identity from Natalie Fischer to Natalie Bowman. Why?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

821.969

That's because Natalie Fisher was monitoring her credit report and realized someone was stealing from her. Esther needed to refine her scam and get someone's social security number.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

848.49

Wenn jemand weiß, was Esther durchging, ist Frank Abagnale.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

863.154

Seine Erfolge als junger Kon-Mann inspirierten den Film Catch Me If You Can.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

875.203

Abagnale hat jahrelang als Pilot, Arzt und Arbeiter vorgesehen. Er sagt, er weiß, warum Esther so gerne debattiert.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

914.822

Bita Shigagi, Esthers Freundin bei Cal State Fullerton, hatte keine Ahnung, dass ihre Freundin ein Imposter war.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

924.764

Bita vertraute Esther komplett und sie verbunden, nachdem sie lernte, dass beide ihrer Mütter von Krebs gestorben sind.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

944.546

But back in Seattle, three years had passed since Esther's family had heard from her.

48 Hours

Without a Trace

961.689

The family filed a missing persons report and Edna wondered if she'd ever see Esther again. What are you thinking to yourselves?

48 Hours

Without a Trace

973.943

Esther war sehr lebendig und sie ging weiter mit einer anderen Identität. Im Frühjahr 2003 hat Esther den Namen Natalie Bowman verlassen, nach Cal State Fullerton geflogen und auf die Straße gefahren. Sie hat Bita erzählt, dass sie gestoppt wurde und ihr Name wieder geändert wurde. Bita glaubte ihr. Und was war ihr neues Name?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1003.536

And something else troubled Terrell. Unusual purchases on Stephanie's credit card the weekend she disappeared. Nearly $5,000 worth of golf clothing and equipment, all for delivery to Wayne Guidry. And on the very day Stephanie's parents reported her missing, Wayne Guidry, seen here in bank surveillance photos, cashed a $3,000 check Stephanie had made out to him.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1040.816

Then, Wayne left town, heading home to Luling, just outside New Orleans. He went straight to see his lifelong friend, Eric Dufresne.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1054.21

Eric and Wayne grew up playing Little League together. As adults, they became hunting and golfing buddies.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1069.62

When did you first learn that Stephanie was missing?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1086.927

Was Wayne worried about Stephanie?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1091.308

But the worried look quickly wore off, Eric says.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1107.736

In fact, Eric was about to become involved. Investigators approached him hoping he might provide clues to prove their developing theory. that Wayne had killed Stephanie. What was your reaction when you heard that? I was shocked. I didn't want to believe it. Investigators knew Wayne liked the outdoors and sometimes took Stephanie into the woods to make love.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1153.78

The Jackson Bienville Management Preserve is 30,000 acres of dense woods. To find a body in such a massive area, police needed Eric to help them narrow the search.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1170.704

Eric had a vague memory of a place in the woods that fascinated Wayne.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1181.83

A hole in the ground, somewhere in the preserve.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1194.737

So Detective Terrell turned to another man who had often hunted with Wayne, his own father, Wayne Guidry Sr.,

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1226.701

He told us what road it was off of, a little logging road. Wayne Guidry Sr. then drew this map with an X marking the spot. It was like, you know, this may be it. Investigators had long suspected that Stephanie was somewhere in this vast wildlife preserve. Now, with that hand-drawn map from Guidry's father, authorities could finally focus their search.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1253.734

About 150 people walked side by side through these woods until right here. They discovered the hole, the one that had so fascinated Wayne Guidry Jr. And at the bottom of this hole, hidden by some brush, was the decaying body of Stephanie Pepper Sims.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1290.138

A warrant was issued immediately for Wayne Guidry, and within hours, he was arrested. 300 miles away on a New Orleans golf course.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1312.359

Wayne Guidry swears he's innocent. So are you telling me it's just a coincidence that her body ends up in the hole that you had pointed out to your good friend, the hole that your own father knew about?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1330.096

It is the same hole.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1337.739

Is there an arrogance with Wayne, in your opinion? Oh, yeah, but I'm going to take that out of it. I want you to list for me all of the forensic evidence that links Wayne Guidry to the murder of Stephanie. None. Zip. Nothing. Why were you so attracted to Stephanie?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1386.516

Wayne Guidry says his affair with Stephanie Sims was overwhelming right from the start. Why'd you get emotional when you're thinking about this?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1409.176

Guidry also had other needs. And at the time you met Stephanie, what were you doing for a living?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1421.434

So financially, what was Wayne contributing to this relationship?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1435.105

Guidry was happy to be a kept man. While Stephanie went to work, he stayed in her apartment, spending hours on her computer. And you're looking at pornography and golf sites.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1456.534

Did Stephanie know you were doing this?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1465.336

Guidry says Stephanie was ready to divorce her husband, David Sims.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1483.204

Guidry was satisfied. But was Stephanie satisfied?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1510.245

On the last day Stephanie Sims was seen alive, Wayne Guidry says they spent a typical Sunday afternoon together.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1544.406

Store clerk Sarah Fitzpatrick remembers Stephanie coming in that Sunday and that everything seemed fine.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1559.995

That night, Guidry claims that he and Stephanie had an argument and that Stephanie threw him out of the apartment. He says he drove around in her white Taurus all night long until morning.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1598.199

Holland's theory of the crime is that right after the stop at the convenience store, Guidry took Stephanie into the woods and shot her.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1625.971

But how can Holland convince a jury?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1639.073

A forensic examination of the hard drive in Stephanie's computer revealed that during the exact time period Wayne Guidry says he was driving around after Stephanie kicked him out of the apartment, someone was in the apartment, surfing the web for 11 hours.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1674.081

As for the $3,000 check Stephanie gave Guidry the day before she disappeared? Why'd she do that?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1704.161

Wayne did hear criticism after he cashed Stephanie's check and left town. You know that sounds terrible. It does. And it looks terrible. You've got $3,000 cash in your pocket.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1716.431

You know that Stephanie is missing, and you continue on your trip to southern Louisiana.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1742.047

Guidry, playing a guitar he fashioned himself in jail from cardboard and dental floss, now admits he may be guilty of bad manners, but not of murder. Do you have anything to do with her disappearance, with her murder? If you didn't kill Stephanie, who did? I don't know. I can't tell you that.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1774.817

It could have been almost anyone, says Guidry, including David Sims, Stephanie's husband.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1788.376

Did you know that Wayne Guidry Jr. was seeing Stephanie?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1801.666

David, did you have anything to do with the disappearance of your wife, Stephanie?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1807.851

Did you shoot your wife? No.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1819.795

And why, Guidry asks, would he kill the one woman who really loved him?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1846.991

What the investigators saw was the face of a stone-cold killer. And prosecutor Hugo Holland says he's got an eyewitness, not to the crime, but to a confession. Do you believe Wayne Guidry Jr. is a murderer? Yes. I don't believe it, I know it. Barbara Pepper will be haunted forever by her daughter Stephanie's last phone call.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1906.42

Stephanie never called back. On the day that Stephanie disappeared, she spoke with her mother, Barbara, on the telephone. Quote, Wayne has a surprise for me. What was the surprise, Wayne?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1939.953

Terry Coleman says Guidry was cooking up more than lunch that day, that the surprise was a plan to lure Stephanie out into the woods. And so he tells you he heads out to the woods. What does he do?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1966.718

Coleman says Guidry then made a deadly proposal, marriage or murder.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1989.315

When Guidry Jr. tells you that it was Stephanie's gun that he used. Yes.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

1994.899

And then what happened?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2006.487

Did Stephanie have a gun? What kind of gun?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2016.306

Do you know where that gun is today? Because it's missing.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2027.936

Sometimes I feel like I'm partially responsible for death because of that. Do you believe that Stephanie was shot with the gun that you gave her?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2038.737

What does Wayne Guidry Jr. do with the handgun?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2047.423

In an eight-page handwritten letter provided to investigators, Coleman detailed Wayne's alleged confession.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2061.011

Hugo Holland admits... that Coleman, who has been found to be both mentally competent and incompetent at various times, will be a tough sell to a jury.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2080.101

But Holland believes that in this case, Coleman, who has not offered a deal to come forward, is credible.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2114.772

So what you're telling me is that you're an honest man, but you wouldn't necessarily believe what comes out of your own mouth. No, I wouldn't. If I was a juror, I wouldn't take a word. Are we supposed to believe you or not? That's up to you. Wayne, did you take Stephanie's .25 caliber pistol and shoot her in the chest?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2139.244

Do you take her out into the woods, take her out to your favorite hole, dump her body in that hole?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2157.668

Joseph Clark, Wayne Guidry's court-appointed attorney, says relying on a jailhouse snitch shows that Holland doesn't have any solid proof against his client.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2176.397

You think there's reasonable doubt?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2204.031

At this historic courthouse in Homer, Louisiana, a jury hears the arguments over who's responsible for the death of Stephanie Pepper Sims. Prosecutor Hugo Holland presents his key witnesses, Detective Jeff Terrell, Ginger Stewart, Eric Dufresne, and Wayne Guidry, Sr. hoping to convince the jury that the only man with a motive for murder was Wayne Guidry Jr. You're a snitch.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2236.456

A jailhouse snitch. Sure. The worst kind of human being in a jail, correct? Right.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2244.201

And Terry Coleman, Guidry's former cellmate, provides the jury with his unique perspective, as the man Guidry supposedly confessed to.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2270.44

Defense attorney Joseph Clark tells the jury Coleman can't be trusted. He also says police failed to properly investigate David Sims, the scorned husband.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2299.517

But the prosecution presents compelling evidence. Computer records show Guidry was surfing the net the night he claimed Stephanie threw him out. Credit card purchases and cashing a $3,000 check from Stephanie after she went missing were also damaging. And most importantly, that hole in the woods, Wayne's hole, where Stephanie's body was found.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2326.454

So ultimately, as the jurors go to deliberate, it all comes down to that hole in the ground.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2366.267

The trial lasted for seven days. The jury came back in just two hours with their verdict. Guilty.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2386.804

I'll accept it. Are you a guilty man?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2409.722

It will be a long time. 30-year-old Wayne Guidry is sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2432.927

No doubt in your mind, justice was served. I believe that with all my heart. What do you miss most about Stephanie?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2452.158

And you miss her a lot.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2458.544

But one question remains, motive. Holland says Wayne Guidry may have answered that early on.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

2503.574

At the First Baptist Church in Jonesboro, a piano was dedicated in Stephanie's memory.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

307.858

Howard and Barbara Pepper have always believed their only child, Stephanie, was living proof that miracles do happen.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

326.183

Stephanie grew up in tiny Jonesboro, Louisiana. Her parents were both teachers.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

335.362

And Stephanie was at the head of the class. Highest academic achievement.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

344.646

She was a talented writer.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

349.507

And then there was that sweet singing voice.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

368.16

It's tough to talk about her, isn't it?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

382.111

Stephanie was at the heart of her parents' lives, and they'll admit they spoiled her a bit. But all that love paid off. Stephanie was graduated with honors from college, and following in her parents' footsteps, became an English instructor at Louisiana Tech University. She had everything, except a serious relationship in her life. But at age 25, that was about to change.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

417.501

Stephanie caught the eye of a local accountant, David Sims. Hey, Boo-Boo. Ten years older than she was, David was a former student of her father's.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

437.56

And on February 27th, 1999, after just six months of dating, I now present to you, Mr. and Mrs. David Sands. David and Stephanie became husband and wife, but the honeymoon didn't last. Barbara, how long after David and Stephanie were married did she tell you that there were problems?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

464.892

David insisted on separate bank accounts.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

478.761

Just major items or little items as well?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

484.685

Did David put her on an allowance?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

489.82

Do you think you're kind of a rigid personality?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

504.188

About two years into the marriage, David says they stopped communicating.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

513.063

Pretty soon, it wasn't just the checking accounts they were keeping separate. Is it true the two of you slept in separate beds?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

536.556

It was now November 2002. Stephanie confided in her good friend, Ginger Stewart, that she was unhappy.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

556.729

One night after finals week at Louisiana Tech, Stephanie joined Ginger at a local bar.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

599.465

But Ginger says Stephanie seemed fascinated with Guidry.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

610.008

Ginger says Wayne Guidry swept Stephanie off her feet.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

619.373

Were you sensing that your good friend was in love?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

628.816

Less than a week after meeting this handsome golfer, Stephanie told her husband that she wanted to separate.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

648.883

By giving Stephanie some space, David hoped he could save their marriage. Honestly, did you think the marriage was over at that point? Oh, no.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

661.391

He even helped Stephanie move into her own apartment. This is the woman you love, right? Right. This had to hurt.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

675.715

But Stephanie failed to tell her husband what the real reason was for separating, Wayne Guidry.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

692.347

Stephanie remained in occasional contact with David. But she was having trouble keeping her affair private.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

713.432

A male voice on the phone and another man's hat in the trunk of Stephanie's car.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

733.071

For five weeks, Stephanie lived a double life, a secret lover in a shared apartment, a husband left alone to worry about what was really going on. Then on January 5th, 2003, Stephanie's mom got a terrible feeling. Her daily telephone calls from Stephanie had abruptly stopped.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

764.034

Barbara's premonition was right. Stephanie had vanished. Monroe Police Department. The missing person case was assigned to lead detective Jeff Terrell. Jeff, how you doing? All right. Who focused his attention on David Sims. Are you thinking there could be a jealous husband situation here as a potential motive? Yeah. Aren't you the one with the motive to kill her?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

844.644

While Stephanie Pepper Sims sounded like she was looking forward to the new year, her best friend Ginger Stewart says inside she was struggling with her secret life. Was Stephanie troubled by this affair she was having on a moral basis?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

863.612

How many people knew about the affair between Wayne Guidry and Stephanie?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

870.734

Stephanie's mother, Barbara, knew only that her daughter had a new friend. Did any of your radar go off as a mom when she said, my friend?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

881.858

Then, on the morning Stephanie failed to show up at Louisiana Tech to teach her class, the Peppers went to their daughter's new apartment looking for her. Minutes later, the phone rang. It was Wayne.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

908.358

What was the tone of his voice?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

915.862

As the days went by with no sign of Stephanie, her parents became desperate.

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

934.992

Hundreds of people were now searching for the 29-year-old college professor. Yeah, that'd be fine. Detective Jeff Terrell first questioned Stephanie's husband, David. Did you interview David Sims yourself?

48 Hours

A Love Affair Turned Deadly

960.411

David was given a polygraph test. He passed. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna need this. Terrell then conducted a series of interviews with the last person to see Stephanie alive, Wayne Guidry. Terrell says Guidry's rambling answers raised red flags.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

1013.547

During the course of our show we played some of the audio that was recorded at the scene after the takedown of John Blauvelt at that woman's property right outside her front door. And one of the marshals interviewed her and we have more sound from that talk that just gives you a sense of the shock that she was experiencing to learn that her partner in life was a killer.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

1142.318

Well, he's going to appeal his conviction. And then, Kat, you want to talk about what's happening with Hannah?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

1194.398

She was a sweetheart of a young woman. Those who knew her, she loved animals. She just wanted to get married. She wanted to have a family. Just the shock of what she had hoped for and what her life became. How it ended in this tragic murder is just heartbreaking.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

146.298

It's a real solemn, heartbreaking moment. This is the weapon that was one of the last things that Katie Blauvelt saw on this earth. It was selected by her killer. This killer was a trained soldier. He knew how to use knives. And Kinley Abey, the prosecutor, she suggested to me that he knew this would be a painful death.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

168.773

And Blauvelt left the knife in her neck, because we know now this was a revenge killing, that he did that on purpose.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

243.662

War es also, hat es dich so erstaunt, dass John und Katie hier einander gefunden haben? Es gab dieses Abenteuer. Ich hatte keine Ahnung, woher das kam, was der Plan war. War es seltsam für dich?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

304.321

Ali Somerville, one of Katie's friends, told me that he partied with them. And it's shocking behavior.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

322.36

Ja, absolut. Das sind 17-Jährige. Und als Vater von einigen Kindern, das ist eine sehr vulnerable Zeit für die Menschen. Und er hat sich nur dafür vorgenommen. Es ist... Ich denke, viele von diesen Kindern haben viel Selbstvertrauen, so wie wir es gesehen haben, und sie haben diesen älteren Lebensstil genossen, den ihre Eltern nicht wussten.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

369.364

I don't know. You watch it in the show. I look like Lurch. I'm like nine feet tall.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

378.631

I'm six foot three. That's not too tall. But yeah, it looks silly. We had a good laugh in the screening room when we took a look at that. But she was a terrific investigator. Her heart was so into solving this case. The kind of people you want to have in law enforcement.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

468.022

Richtig. Und es gibt einen Niveau, einen Niveau der Beweise, der einem Gericht vorgegeben werden muss, um eine Warnung zu bekommen. Das hatten sie nicht ganz, an diesem Punkt. Sie hatten dieses Interview, das ihre Überraschungen sehr erhöhte. Sie wussten, dass das Körper, wo das Körper gefunden wurde, ein Ort war, wo Kinder mit John verheiratet waren.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

490.34

So they had pieces of this puzzle, but they just didn't quite have enough. And Blauvelt takes off and he takes off with a 17-year-old girl, Hannah Thompson, with them. They're heading out on the road and this is where a 17-year-old, I think, can be brought into a circumstance psychologically from an adult of his age and his sophistication and his training and all of that.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

516.22

I think she was a real victim at this point, being pulled into this horrible situation with a man how much she knew at that point that he had committed murder she learned a lot more later on was the whole thing was just a tragic situation but off she goes in his car and they're heading west

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

550.885

Well, they supposedly were in love at that point. She told authorities later that she was in love with him.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

574.047

Ich habe es nie gemacht. Ich meine, ich fuhr mehrere tausend Meilen und sie haben den Westpazifik und er bekommt sein... Sein Auto ist in der Mütze nahe Walla Walla, Washington. Du erinnerst dich wahrscheinlich von Bugs Bunny-Kartons. Und sie müssen weglaufen. Und sie leben ihre Leben im Grunde als unabhängige Menschen. Sie haben Geld für Essen gekostet. Sie schliefen ziemlich viel draußen.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

598.779

Und etwa einen Monat später, in dieser Reise, geht er weg, laut ihr. Und sie ruft ihre Eltern an.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

639.994

um uns zu vermeiden, denn diese US-Marschallen sind unglaubliche Investitionen. Ich habe viele Stunden mit diesen Leuten gearbeitet und es gibt etwas über sie, dass sie sehr ruhig sind. Ihre Persönlichkeiten dominieren keine Raum, aber sie sind so fixiert.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

659.219

Wenn ich eine kurze Geschichte machen kann, was sie mich erinnern, als ich jung war, als ich ein Teenager war, hatten wir ein paar Küken in unserem Haus. Wir hatten einen namens Charlie und wir haben uns entschieden, Charlie wegzugeben. Meine Mutter fand eine Familie und führte Charlie drei Meilen nach Hause. Am nächsten Tag sagt die Familie, Charlie ist weg.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

676.386

Zwei Tage später zeigt Charlie unser Haus auf. Das ist ein US Marshal. Sie erscheinen plötzlich aus der Blut. Wie hat das geschehen? Und diese Leute sind patient und sie finden diese kleinen Zeichen und sie fangen Leute auf dem Selbstvertrauen-Niveau herunter. Und es kann einige Jahre dauern. Ich habe sie gefunden, einen Mann in einem berühmten mexikanischen Dorf. Und in diesem Fall

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

700.792

John Blauvelt hat all his training used and brilliantly ended up in Medford, Oregon with a woman who had no idea who he was and was living low and thought, I'm sure, that there was no way they would find him.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

753.325

Ah, aber er hatte eine identifizierende Fähigkeit, die er nicht verschwenden konnte, die er nicht ändern konnte. Und das war ein Piraten-Tattoo, das auf seinem Arm war. Er hatte auch andere Tattoos. Ja. Aber als er für seine Interview auf der Kamera ging, die Interview, bevor er flieg, hat er eine kurze Schuhe geschnitten. Erinnere dich, ob er eine lange Schuhe geschnitten hätte.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

774.715

Und sie wussten das nicht. Aber da haben sie die Tattoos erkannt. Und diese Marshalen, sie fokussieren sich darauf. Wir haben einen Identifizierer.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

834.552

Es ist schwierig, Annemarie, weil sie weiß, dass sie ihre Star-Witness sein wird in jedem Gerichtsverfahren gegen Blau-Welt. Und es ist also ein leckerer Tanz hier.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

901.07

Und wo sie einige der Punkte hier verbunden haben, erinnere dich daran, dass sein Fahrrad in Washington in den Müll gefangen wurde. Als Hannah ihre Eltern angerufen hat, war sie in Oregon. Und so, als sie auf diesem Telefon entdeckt haben, dass er diese Frau geschrieben hat, lebte diese Frau in Medford, Oregon, also geografisch. The news was tightening.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

921.631

They said, this must be the area that he is in. And don't forget, at this point, he was Ben Klein. He was not John Blauvelt. He had changed his name, which would make it even more difficult to try to identify this guy. But they were able to get her address and she was an upstanding woman in the community, a full-time job.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

942.827

She was the breadwinner in the family and John was sort of a stay-at-home partner for her. In fact, when they observed him one day, I think he was putting together, was it a portable swimming pool out on the yard? Do you remember that cat?

48 Hours

Post Mortem | Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife 

969.801

Jemand, den ich nicht kennen würde, außer für das Tattoo. Also, diese neue Freundin ist überrascht.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

1012.799

and then get away with it for almost 28 years, had plenty of chances to do it again. Wow.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

106.626

Well, it all depends on who you talk to. And we spoke with a lot of people involved in this investigation. And I have to admit, I remain baffled to this day. Why not say that this was a murder? The killer knew it was a murder, right? I understand details of the investigation. You may not want a suspect to know, right? But just the basic fact as to whether or not it's a murder is

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

1086.505

I've never seen anybody quite melt down like that. It was like the Wicked Witch and the Wizard of Oz melting down at the end. That's what I saw. He went from being calm and collected to sweating. He was very nervous. They pointed out that he leaned back in the chair to get as far away from them as he possibly could. Psychologically, he wanted out of that room.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

1223.771

I thought one thing that was profound that I just wanted to read is almost kind of a final thought from Stephanie. This was at the press conference. She said, I celebrate that a violent predator is no longer able to victimize other women and girls. I celebrate that my fight for my sister is over. celebration for me is short-lived.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

1242.924

It's quickly replaced with a tangled mess of frustration, disbelief, and anger." Of course, that is part of the profound nature of murder, isn't it? It just never quite goes away inside any of these victims. But in this case, I think Stephanie really accomplished this extraordinary feat in her life and gave honor to her sister's memory.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

129.895

That still baffles me to this day. And it baffled people back in the day in 1996 in Montana. Deputy Farquhar could not believe what his sheriff's department was putting out there. He still can't explain. He's still baffled. And Deputy Farquhar, who today is a veterinarian, ended up leaving eventually the sheriff's department out of frustration in all of this. So

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

155.331

It is one of these things that is baffling to me. But some of our people ended up speaking to the sheriff back in the day.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

187.672

And back in 1996, he told the media that there was no evidence of foul play. And we can say we know today that simply was not true.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

269.835

And again, this is a first for me. I've never known a law enforcement agency at any level to withhold from the public that it was a murder, to suggest that it was an accident or may have been an accident. As you said, everyone downshifts, Anne Marie, right? They're not as concerned. They don't have a threat in the community. They're not racking their brains.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

288.84

What did I see that day in that area, in this public fishing area? And there could have been opportunity lost there.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

405.538

And the thing about Stephanie, all these years, she had always promised her sister in her thoughts that she was not going to let this case die. And it just reached a point where now was the time, as Lauren said, for her to move forward. And she is the champion in this and one of the most compelling characters I have ever interviewed for a 48 Hours episode.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

454.511

I think everyone touched by this case was haunted by it all this time. Keep in mind, Sheriff Dan Springer, he'd just been on the job for five days with the Gallatin County Sheriff's Department when Danny's body was found. And if there's one thing that we learned in this, Sheriff Dan Springer's a man of absolute integrity.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

475.064

And once he became the big dog, you know, the sheriff in the department, this case that haunted him as well He wanted to return to it and looked Stephanie in the eye and said, we are going to solve this. He played such a crucial role in this.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

507.489

Well, meeting this guy, you instantly love him. I mean, Lauren was there too. We're just having a brief conversation about how he got involved with this. He starts talking about Danny and tears come to his eyes. He tears up. This is a guy who was a tough LAPD police captain, right? He'd seen everything in Los Angeles County. and investigated every kind of crime.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

529.876

But when law enforcement people retire, they oftentimes get in the private security business. He has a business, a number of employees, so he kept his network of contacts out there. And eventually, Sheriff Springer learns of his presence, this wealth of experience and investigative talent, is, you know, living on the top of a mountain just outside of town.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

53.518

Hey, good to see you again, Anne-Marie.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

552.268

And Springer reached out to him and Elfmont said yes, which is, of course, crucial in this case.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

725.109

It's like a time machine. They're able to go back generations and then work their way forward to find someone. It's almost magic. It really is.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

790.853

Well, remember, once they get that DNA readings, they're able to then get into DNA databases, and they found this link to the suspect Hutchinson. So for CeCe, who's been doing this for a while, it's extraordinarily exciting. It's what she lives for. But it's also a very sobering thing because now you can go to that person's social media. She learned that Hutchinson was a big time hunter.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

817.166

He's married, has two kids, and she realizes that these people's lives are about to go off a cliff when she brings this forward. So it's excitement and that is tempered a bit with this sobering reality of what the consequences will be. But finally, it is the path to justice.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | It’s About Danni

988.74

And also the Gallatin County Sheriff's Office, they sent out a bulletin to other law enforcement agencies in the state of Montana to see if they have any cold cases linked to Hutchinson. And that's the big question is, will they find other cases in this? And Stephanie herself, she ends up saying in our hour, I think that anyone who is able to rape and murder a young girl

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

1092.095

And remember, Matthew Edgar's defense and his story was so outrageous and offensive to the family that he was so drunk that he doesn't remember this killing. Right. Despite the fact that while he was inebriated, he was sending text messages and talking to people and driving an automobile and stuff. It was a ridiculous story.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

1119.716

Yeah. And she was an outlier in that she was academically accomplished. She had goals in life. She was going to university and she had her escape. It was right there in front of her. And yet that That culture pulled her back in.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

1151.027

It was really heartbreaking. We got to know Darcy, who admits in her own life she's made a lot of mistakes, but Livy for her was her accomplishment. giving birth, raising that young girl who became successful. She was her dream child. And it was everything in her life that gave her meaning is that I raised this extraordinary person.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

1174.161

With all the mistakes that I made along the way, look what I've produced. And to have that taken away. When you're at that little memorial, for Darcy, it means just everything. It's just precious. And she tends to it. And She feels the presence of her daughter there, and it's just awful. At the end of the day, murder reverberates and destroys so many other people's lives, and poor Darcy.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

1201.109

I hope she can get back on the rails, but this is such a blow, because her daughter was everything.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

175.975

So it turns out that before becoming Livvy's boyfriend, Matthew Edgar, had not one, not two, but three high-speed chases in one day with law enforcement. Wow. The last one ended up in an accident in which the deputy chasing him had a broken leg, and he was arrested.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

195.345

When we learned about this, we talked with Darcy, Libby's mom, about it, and I said, you know, as a parent myself, I said, well, did you warn your daughter to stay away from Matthew Edgar? And she goes, no. If I did that, I'd be judging him. And I don't like to judge people. And besides, I've made some mistakes in my life. So it's just kind of a different way of thinking.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

243.81

We are taken aback. At the very start of the hour to the death scene, and you're hearing the shrieks of Darcy, the mom, and where's my baby? Where is she? And it was so real and devastating.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

288.594

Most protocols with law enforcement, there would be an officer who would approach her, come over here, come sit in my squad car. We'll talk to you about the situation to allow her out there to just shout and scream and be ignored. And those, you know, those cold stares back at her were just terrible.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

308.138

And she was sensing, of course, that her daughter was gone and no one was telling her, but it was torture. Yeah.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

318.621

Where's my baby? Where is she? Where is my daughter? What happened to her? And they just stared at her. And that is not protocol. That was a mistake. And they admitted later that that was handled very poorly. There was one character, though, that both of us just really fell for. the Sabine County Sheriff's investigator, J.P. McDonough. And J.P. was just right out of Central Cassidy.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

342.222

He had the perfect Texas sounding voice. And his initial interviewing of Matthew Edgar on that stretcher that you'll see, if you haven't seen the hour yet, it's unlike anything I have had on 48 Hours Before. Sheriff's body cams capturing this bloody suspect lying down, and J.P. does a masterful job of connecting with him and getting him to open up.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

367.492

And the questioning went on and on, and you're sitting there going, Matthew, you're digging yourself a hole here. And he eventually talked his way into getting arrested by the end of it. But J.P. McDonough, he was a really smart, rural guy, knew how to talk to the locals, and he did a great job.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

409.996

This is one of the strangest aspects of this story for Judy and me is. On that deputy's body cam, and you're looking at Matthew Edgar's face, it is covered in blood. And to this day, they still don't know whose blood it is. You know, there was a theory that it was Bobby Ozan, this man who they were partying at that house.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

431.57

And they had a little struggle outside by this automobile as Matthew Edgar was trying to give chase to Livy.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

481.46

And it was a great get by Judy because he had the front row seat, as we like to say, to all of this. And he knew the intricacies of these relationships. And he's also a great storyteller. And as a quick aside, by the way, he has a hobby on the side. He catches giant catfish with his bare hands. And he showed us a video.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

502.341

It is incredible. He goes underwater. He said he can hold his breath up to two minutes. And then all of a sudden he comes out and he's put his arm all the way down the throat of a giant catfish that may weigh 25, 30 pounds and pulls it out of the water. It's the darndest thing you've ever seen.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

639.215

This relationship that these people had and the fact that he had beaten her in the past, it was the drink and argue and fight, make up, rinse, repeat, do it again. Right. But no one ever thought this would lead to murder.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

679.589

They take care of their own. They take care of their own circumstances. We don't need a deputy here. You and I will take care of it. It may end up in a fist fight. It may end up in some slapping around, some screaming and shouting, but eventually they'll sort it out and tomorrow's another day.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

740.663

Yeah, when they were married, she put her name on his clothes and hers. The other thing, though, the connection that they had was that, remember, Edgar had texted Montana that Libby was dead.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

762.108

There was a multi-agency investigation into this murder, and all of the investigators concluded that Montana had nothing to do with the death of Libby Lewis.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

870.037

And after he was released on bail, he was arrested again for assaulting Montana. And this time bail was set at $325,000. And the family, they were able to pay that bond. Now, it's usually 10% down, but that's $32,000 they'd have to come up with to get him out.

48 Hours

Post Mortem | The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

962.461

This is the second time this season I've had that happen on a story where the defendant just didn't show up. And yeah, they're looking around and obviously, where'd he go? And imagine being the defense attorney in this case, too, where you're trying to come up with something that can spare him and he flees its curtains after that, to say the least.

48 Hours

Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife

235.836

Peter Van Sant reports, Katie Blauvelt, the death of a soldier's wife.

48 Hours

Cati Blauvelt: Death of a Soldier’s Wife

2480.359

Hannah Thompson's trial date is still pending. John Blauvelt is appealing his conviction. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, the National Domestic Violence Hotline can be reached at 1-800-799-7233 or text START to 88788.

48 Hours

The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

0.409

Streaming on Paramount+. Everyone who comes into this clinic is a mystery.

48 Hours

The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

13.302

We're doctors and we're detectives.

48 Hours

The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

17.869

Solve the puzzle, save the patient.

48 Hours

The Blackout Murder of Livye Lewis

7.055

Their bodies are the scene of the crime. Their symptoms and history are clues.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

0.529

Trigger warning, the following episode contains references to harassment, stalking, and physical violence. Listen with care. In August 2009, an anonymous man called the Skagit County Sheriff's Office 911 hotline.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1048.954

That's Jennifer Thompson. She knows Michael Oakes as well as anyone. Jennifer was his second wife. I talked to her in 2010.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1063.226

She said they were married when Michael first met Linda. Jennifer said that she loved him, but that Michael had an insecure side. Is he a tough guy?

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1078.568

An action hero kind of guy?

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

109.451

This is Lee Herron. She's a private investigator Mark hired after the incident. Lee said when Mark refused to cooperate, the officers wouldn't let him leave.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1091.595

According to Jennifer, Michael thought part of being tough meant being armed.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1106.362

There was one book Jennifer said Michael referenced a lot.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1117.711

The book examines how people learn to kill in war. Jennifer said that Michael zeroed in on a part that described how one small sliver of the population could be vicious.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1137.881

She said that over time, Michael's fascination with killing and his tough-guy persona rotted out their marriage.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1179.212

Jennifer told me that the final straw came when verbal tensions between them turned physically abusive.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1225.975

Michael told us no one should believe Jennifer's allegations against him. In July of 2008, a year after they tied the knot, Jennifer left with her two biological kids.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1265.117

Soon after, Michael Oakes and Linda Updike set up their first in-person meeting.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1283.829

As the fall of 2008 began, Jennifer faded from his life, as Michael, the action hero wannabe, now had a new woman in his sights. And as Michael's relationship with Linda grew deeper, he said Linda's ex-husband, Mark, became obsessed, constantly calling him on the phone, asking for meetings. By October 2009... It's become very, very clear to me that...

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1341.095

Michael said the two men finally agreed to meet again on October 24, 2009, at that same church in Anacortes. There is surveillance video from Linda's house showing Michael packing up his car to head out that day.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1361.333

That's Lee Herron again, Mark's former private investigator. She examined the video herself.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1374.142

As Michael is packing, you can see Linda come out onto their deck. They touch hands, and then Linda wraps her arms around Michael. They share a long, heartfelt embrace, the kind that suggested to me that something important lay ahead, something serious. Here's Lee again.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

138.007

Mark told the deputies the box had been planted. They let him go, but from then on, Mark watched his back.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1414.772

Michael and Linda kissed and he drove away. Hours later, Michael claimed he came face to face with Mark Stover in that church parking lot.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1434.471

Michael said Stover once again demanded those wedding pictures. So did you give him those photo albums that he wanted? I never found them. Late that night, Michael is seen returning to Linda's home. But is it possible this entire story was all a ruse for a failed murder attempt? Because four days later, at 2.30 AM on October 28th,

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1462.737

Michael is again seen on surveillance video driving away from Linda's house. This time, Michael said the two men would meet in private at Mark Stover's house in Anacortes. Michael claimed that Mark had told him this was his last chance to turn over those damn wedding pictures.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1488.432

But what really happened when they met remains a mystery. Only those who saw the bloody aftermath can express what they felt.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1511.34

From 48 Hours, this is Trained to Kill. The dog trainer, the heiress, and the bodyguard. Produced by Sony Music Entertainment. I'm your host, Peter Van Sant. Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 Hours. Original reporting by 48 Hours producers, Ryan Smith and Liza Finley. Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount Audio and Maura Waltz is the senior story editor.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1545.367

Recording assistance from Alan Pang and Reginald Bazile. Special thanks to Paramount Podcast Vice President, Megan Marcus. It is written and produced by Alex Schumann. Stephanie Serrano is our editor. Our executive producer is Shira Morris. Our associate producer is Zoe Kolkin. Theme and original music composed by Hans Dale Shee. Cedric Wilson is our sound designer and mixed the episodes.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

1581.172

We also use music from APM and Epidemic Sounds. Fendall Fulton is our fact checker. Our production manager is Tamika Balance-Kolasny. I'm Peter Van Sant. If you're enjoying the show, be sure to rate and review. It helps more people find it and hear our reporting. You can listen to Train to Kill early and ad free right now by subscribing to 48 Hours Plus on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

162.202

I'm Peter Van Sant. From 48 Hours, this is Trained to Kill. The dog trainer, the heiress, and the bodyguard. Episode 3, Secret Meetings. At the time Mark Stover was pulled over by police, Linda Updike said she had moved on from her ex-husband.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

193.167

Michael was Michael Oakes, a security expert. We spoke back in 2010.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

208.976

Michael said they met at a Starbucks and quickly connected over their love of books. By the fall of 2008, Michael said their business relationship turned romantic.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

247.271

Linda was impressed by how dedicated Michael was to his family. After getting a divorce from his first wife, Michael took full custody of their kids. He even treated the kids of his second wife as his own.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

27.263

It involved a dangerous drug dealer.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

282.448

Michael described himself as a self-taught security specialist skilled in firearms.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

322.31

You've been described as Linda Updike's bodyguard as well as boyfriend.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

365.306

Michael said that by the spring of 2009, he and his kids started spending a lot of time at Linda's house in Winthrop. which was more than 200 miles north from Michael's place in Kennewick, Washington.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

39.823

The dispatcher then asked the caller for the person's name.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

391.619

Their relationship deepened. What seemed to make it even better was that Linda said she hadn't heard from Mark since he had been arrested for stalking and theft.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

419.701

To her, the nightmare finally felt over.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

438.765

But according to Michael, the past roared back into the present when Mark Stover unexpectedly re-entered their lives.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

467.441

Michael said that Mark hadn't stopped stalking, he just found a new target. The Mark Stover you got to know, was he a frightening man? Very. Intimidating?

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

49.829

Stover, as in Mark Stover, the dog trainer to the stars who had moved to Anacortes, Washington.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

490.009

Michael Oakes said the first time he encountered Mark Stover was a real shock. It was around Memorial Day, 2009. Michael and Linda had been in a romantic relationship for about nine months.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

509.896

Michael said he then made a stop at Costco.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

527.906

Mark Stover is standing next to your car. Next to my car in the parking lot. In Kennewick, Washington, which is on the other side of the mountains from where we are now. Yes. The drive from Mark's home in Anacortes to this Costco in Kennewick, Washington, would have taken about five hours. Yet there he was, according to Michael, menacingly standing by Michael's car.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

575.772

Michael couldn't remember if he said anything to Mark. or if he just gave him a confused look as he waited to hear Mark's demand.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

621.522

Michael said that Mark told him to bring the wedding photos to the Northgate Mall in Seattle on July 14, 2009. He said he agreed. Why didn't you at that moment simply look him in the eye and say, Mark Stover or whoever you are, get away from me. I don't ever want to speak to you again. If you get anywhere near my children, I'll call the police.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

675.39

Michael said at first he was going to call the police, but then decided against it, worried about getting Linda involved. Did Michael tell you that Mark Stover approached him and demanded wedding photos?

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

692.465

Why wouldn't he share this vitally important information with you?

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

703.277

Michael said that when July 14th rolled around, he went to meet Mark at the Nordstrom store at the Northgate Mall, just as he said Mark demanded. Michael said that since he didn't tell Linda about this meeting, he arrived empty-handed, no wedding photos. Michael said Mark got angry and scolded him.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

71.446

It's a little tough to hear, but he's warning them that Mark carries a gun. He said, this is very dangerous.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

751.077

A couple of weeks later, Michael suggested to Linda that they leave and go on a trip out to Whitefish, Montana. That's where Linda's father, Wally Updike, had a house.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

767.968

En route to Whitefish, Michael remembered making a stop so Linda could take her dog for some exercise and he could pick up some snacks. But Michael said when he got in line to check out, he spotted a familiar face standing near the front door.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

83.735

He says, I wish you guys would do something before he kills somebody.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

842.031

You felt if you confronted Mark Stover, you'd be putting yourself in more danger instead of dealing with the threat that he posed to you?

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

853.201

By now, Michael said Mark's uncanny ability to find him and Linda wherever they went made him realize Mark posed a real danger to his family.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

884.878

By late September of 2009, Michael said that Mark demanded that they set up another meeting after he and Linda were back from Montana.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

898.522

This time at a church in Anacortes. By now, Michael decided to wear his Kevlar vest to the meetings. He said that he drove west across the state to the church parking lot not far from Mark's house and waited. Still unable to find the wedding photos, Michael said he brought two pictures of Linda with her horse, so Mark would have something to look at.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

925.726

But Michael said he didn't show up, and Michael felt helpless.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

94.538

He refused.

Trained to Kill: The Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard

Secret Meetings

957.199

But were all these stories Michael was telling me true? Some people who knew Michael well said he had a darker side to his personality, a potentially violent side.