Philip Patrick

You know, it's not that easy dealing with the West.

So I think we need to start incentivizing these nations.

I think Brazil is a good place to start without Lula.

I don't think Brazil are heavily involved in the BRICS, certainly not with Bolsonaro at the head.

So we need to bring Lula on side.

And like I said, I think carrots, not sticks, will be the way to do it.

Let's not threaten sanctions.

Let's talk cooperation.

That's the strategy China have been using to good effect with Brazil.

And I think we could take a leaf out of their book in that respect.

So that would be my recommendation.

Yeah, look, we saw it when we when we went there.

Right.

President Trump.

You know, he knows how to drop the hammer.

That's one thing he's very good at.

We saw it, though, you know, in Brazil when we were at the meeting, President Trump came out and threatened the Brexit, said 10% tariff for anyone that pursues de-dollarization and then a 50 on Brazil.

But you heard Lula come out.

His response was certain.

Up until that point, they'd never talked about de-dollarization.