Phoebe Gates
Appearances
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
that people don't realize those so one thing i'll say is every time we do an interview they always want like us to hate each other they're always asking if it's especially if we interview individually they'll always ask me what do i hate about sofia what does she hate about me it's so fucked it because they really want like the beef between the two women i think which i think is really interesting because you see in all narratives like when you have women in business they're they always want there to be some sort of catfight
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And I think the clarification is me and Sophia fight all the time. I mean, we're co-founders and best friends, but it's about like having something so we can figure out at the end of the day, like, OK, we disagree on this. But like, if you think that color blue is better, like, let's just go for it. And if it's wrong, we'll get rid of it. Like, and then we'll do, you know, my idea next.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And so that's like the biggest thing I think we've learned is just argue really fast. And we have something where we limit arguments to what, five minutes now. So at the end of it, we're like, OK, decision time.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Back to work. We need to decide what the next step is. So even like you're getting it off the chest and then at the end of the five minutes, like, OK, what are the action items? OK, if Phoebe's mad, Phoebe, go for a walk. Phoebe, go get latte. Phoebe, go take a nap. Phoebe, come back. Or, you know, let's make a decision. Let's try this. And then if it fails, OK, great.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
We'll try it for a week and then do your idea.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Yeah, I think 100%. But the tough thing is it's like, yeah, that's difficult, but that comes with so much privilege, right? Like I didn't have to fight for a scholarship in college. Like I knew what my college was going to be paid for. I had incredible opportunities because of my parents.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Like if I didn't have my parents as my rock, like I wouldn't have been able to have these incredible opportunities. So yes, it came with the thing of like, oh yeah, I am in my parents' shadows and like You know, it is going to be tough to make a name for myself. I had to learn very early on who were true friends, who weren't true friends.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
But honestly, like I think all in all, like I have an incredibly privileged life. And so I think saying that is like, oh, it's a hardship. It isn't really for me because it's like I've been so blessed with what I've been given by my parents and I'm never going to pretend I haven't been.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Okay, so we met at a football game, right? And Sophia, I was pretty intimidated by because she worked for the UN. Her Instagram basically looked like this girl was a professional award receiver, okay? It's like Times, New York Times, UN, saving the world with her nonprofit. And so I obviously was super jealous of her, I'm not gonna lie.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I used to lean too hard of, and this is something we've discussed a lot, too hard on the side of I would overshare consistently of like where I'd messed up, there are things that gone wrong because I wanted people to feel like I was a real human and not just like, you know, a figure or like a figment of my parents. And so I used to lean too hard on the oversharing side. And then I realized like,
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Fake it till you make it. Like if I feel like I am my own person stepping into that room, because frankly, once you get inside a room, it doesn't matter how you got there. Once your foot is in that door, you're there. And I think that was like the biggest learning. And then frankly, honestly, not even like something that I did myself or either of us did, but finding really strong female mentors.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
that were there because they liked us was a huge thing for us. And so finding those people who could say, yeah, you think that's tough for you? Walking into a room and everyone thinks you're just Bill Gates' daughter? Yeah. Okay, honey, imagine walking into a room in tech in 1965. You think you have it tough, babe? Watch what I did. See the empire I built.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And learning from those women has been so critical of how do you be true to yourself and be your own person?
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I think the hardest thing for us was learning.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
originally how to fire people because I feel like as a woman you are asked to be everything when someone reaches out for you and wants you know support or wants advice you feel like you need to respond to that email you're not giving back you know you're not helping out there's this you know aspect where you feel like you need to show up as a girlfriend as a friend and a founder and so I think for us learning really early on to separate the emotions be like I can't be everything for someone
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And I thought she was a little bit of a freak because she put something on her story that was like sober squad, love college, like love being sober. And I was like, well, she sounds like a whole lot of fun. And so when I first met her, I was like, and she's hot, too. I hate her so much. That was my first impression of Sophia was honestly, I feel like a lot of like jealousy.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Like I can't be someone's emotional support. I can't be their friend necessarily if they're my employee and I have to let them go. I have to have a wall there of how I do it. And I feel like we allow men to have that wall, but we don't let women have that.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Children, always children. We'll have investors ask us all the time, well, what happens when you two go have babies? And I remember one time like crying about that. I called my mom and she's like, get up or get out the game, sis. I was like, damn.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
But I think just like the assumption that, you know, in your career, if you're a woman and if an investor puts in money and you're going to be around for 10 years, that like, you know, that you're going to have kids and then you're going to fuck off.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I was like, Sophia, calm it down. Calm it down.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I was like, this girl is pretty cool. But it really took, I want to say, a year for us to bond. And it was frankly an accident because there was another girl we were supposed to room with and she ended up living with her boyfriend. So we end up getting screwed and we have to live with each other. And I'm like, oh, great.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Always. My biggest hack is keep a win sheet of things that you've done. I had someone come to me recently and they wanted something. They They came with a windshield of here's everything I've done for the business. Here's how I've affected the bottom line. Here's the things I've created. And I was like, oh, my God, you're so right. You did do all those things. I thought I did.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
You did those things like, of course, then you deserve this. And I think having that because then you can't be doubted. You can't be on your back foot of, oh, what's going to happen when, you know, you're a mother, blah, blah, blah. If you can show up to your boss and say, this is my win sheet. This is what I've created for the company. And this is what I deserve. I think that's the biggest thing.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And writing that down, even for yourself when you start to doubt yourself and going to look at that is a huge thing. Such good advice. Because it's also like, don't worry about that. I'll handle that. This is what I've done. And I'm going to continue to do that. And just don't answer questions you don't want to answer. Sophia's taught me this so much.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Like when someone asks you something and it's necessarily in a professional setting, it's not a conversation. Right. It's a question and it's a response. And your response doesn't need to be an answer to that question, especially like in any sort of media setting. It's just a response. So you can twist that and say whatever you want and spin it into your thing. You just need to respond.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
You don't need to answer their question because sometimes people ask inappropriate questions.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Sober squad and me can't wait for an awesome year of talking about sustainability. I'm like throwing away my plastic water bottles, my hide in the sheen shirt I have. And I didn't even know this. Look at Sophia. You hid the Shein shirts?
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
No one knows who we are. No one has any idea but each other. We're walking down the stairs.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I got recyclable bottles for you. Wow, thank you.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I'm kind of a loser. So before like the party, I had memorized the stats of how you can win blackjack. Like what are the most, you know, the best statistical plays to win because it's game of luck. Right. And I was at somehow I ended up at a table with Tom Brady and I ended up beating him in blackjack, which Sophia will not stop talking about. I talk about it every day.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I'm like, it's called IMG. And I model for them. It was tough. DNA and IMG, they had a lot of debate over me. But it's, you know, it's been a busy career. Meanwhile, you're like counting cards. And he's still like, he says it to you. I ran into him once recently and he was like, Blackjack.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
He doesn't know my name. He just knows I was the girl with the ink written of the different stats on my hands. He knows you're an influencer.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
your boyfriend is the grandson of paul mccartney indeed are you a beatles person oh man it's so bad like i'm so bad at music i mean my family like we're so nerdy so i knew nothing about music like i knew about tech stuff growing up not music stuff so i remember like early on he was like so excited like he thought he was a ris me he took me to an elton john concert and elton john comes out in like a bedazzled tracksuit i'm like is elton john gay
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
His entire family starts dying laughing. And now we've been dating like almost two years. Every time I see them, they're like, oh, it's Elton John gay. Oh my God. You're like, this girl went to Stanford. It's Elton John gay. Oh, are you kidding me? Oh no. Unfortunately, Arthur does not have any musical talent.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I've been trying to get him to serenade me for a very long time, but it has not happened.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I feel like you're so good at ghosting people on the low. I just don't respond. I mean, I'm so bad at my inbox. I have ADHD that I just randomly ghost people. I'm not going to lie. What is the most unhinged lie you've ever told to get out of plans? Sophia.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Okay. Then we go, we got dinner one night because we find out we're going to be rooming together and we're talking and she'd been dating her boyfriend for about like five years. You dated for like half a decade.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
She has one email with Dalai Lama, one with the Pope, one with some, a couple different climate guys. And then one is the, this horrific photo I took of her in the hospital. When like a TA would be like, why'd you miss class? She'd be like, so sorry.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I've been very ill. And you're fucking attaching a hospital photo.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
It was four years.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I like it would just be so awkward because sometimes we'd have like overlapping TAs for different class and they come up to me like, oh, so bummed Sophia missed last week. And then I would try to suss out the conversation to see what email she had sent them. Because I'm not sure if it's like, oh, yeah, like it's so cool. Like she did meet the Pope last week. How great is that?
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Versus like, did she send the hospital selfie email? Because that's like a little different conversation I have to have. So I'd be like as they're like talking, I'm like. Yes, it is very interesting that she missed that.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Almost half a decade. And we're at dinner and I was like, it's very clear to me your parents are getting divorced. And she was like, how do you know that? And I was like, just your emotional state, everything you're talking about. Because I had gone through, my parents had had a very, very public divorce.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And they're like, she's in the hospital. She was green. I'm like, incredibly sad is what it is. It really is.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
gone for the same guy there was a guy we'll say alejandro because i like that um so both of us have these relationships that end he ended up being both of our rebounds importantly my rebound first i'd just like to say but i like this guy is gorgeous and the reality is there's like three attractive guys at stanford so it's absolutely blown out of proportion and alejandro was like i was i mean i was down bad this guy was like not interested i think we made out like a couple times
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And he not like he was like pretty narcissistic. And it's hella, hella narcissistic. My favorite quote from him is saying that he was the best person that Sophia had ever met. And Dalai Lama and Pope were number two and three tied. This guy's psycho. But I warned Sophia after her breakup. I was like, be very careful. Like, you're going through a breakup. Like, we've been there.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I've been down bad for Alejandro. You know, there's no one else on this campus. Avoid Alejandro at all costs. He's a witch. And Sophia's like, please, like... I'm a bad bitch. Like, I'm never going to fall for this trap. Like, you're so stupid. And I was like, OK, but like, just so you know, like if you and all Hunter get together, like I'm not going to be upset.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Like, I understand there's literally one attractive guy on this campus and I can point to him. And but.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And I really couldn't tell many people about it, especially because it was going on for so long in our household before it was announced. And so I really felt like this built up pressure. And I could just see that in her. And that was the moment. Then we end up sitting and talking for four hours together. And I'm like, OK, honey, you need to dump your boyfriend, though.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
He has like long kind of like highlighter, but it's natural.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
So now he texts us. So. We put him to therapy because we did. The next thing I know is I'm like, and if things get messed with Alejandro, I don't want to be included in this drama because I've already had a pep talk with him about me being down bad for him and like it not working out between us. So I don't want to be involved if things go south with you two.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Next thing I know, I'm in a group chat with Sophia and Alejandro and she's texting him about how he should go to therapy, which apparently he did.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
It's like a fever dream. Mine was bad. Like two months. Oh, not like on and off for like two months. But now it's a bit where he's like my company, my Fia, my girls. Like, how are my ladies? He's going to be so gassed that he's included on this podcast. Like we don't understand the text we're about to get.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
The therapy fixed him.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
We were kind of hoping with karma that she wouldn't be cute. We're like, nah, there's no way. We looked at the Instagram. It was very tough.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Like he said, he's, you know, has Asperger's. Like to me, it's so funny. But for guys, I think they get like really wigged out. And I'll never forget like early in high school, um, Before I had, like, a long-term boyfriend, it was, like, one of my first, like, dances, maybe my, like, sophomore or junior year. And my mom had, like, signed my dad up to drive me and the boy to the dance together.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
First off, my dad insisted on us listening to NPR the entire 30-minute drive. He stopped for fast food. Then he calls the guy. He's like, be responsible tonight, Max Diemenhauer. His name was Maxwell Dannenhauer. Literally wanted to die. But honestly, like, I think... Like now it's become easier for me because it's just funny.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Because we had, I had just gone through a breakup and she was like, me and my boyfriend were getting married. Like, I'm going to be a senator. It's going to be incredible.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Like when you introduce a guy to your dad and it's like, depending on how he reacts, that's how you know if he's going to be a good guy or not.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I'm way more of a people person than he is. He would 100% say that. It used to be a joke of our family would be so boring if I wasn't born. I'd force my dad, at the dad-daughter dances my mom would have us go to, I'd force my dad to go talk to all the other dads and daughters there. And he would get nervous and leave. And I was like, no, if we're here, we're going to socialize.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
We got to work this room, Bill. These other dad and daughters, they're sweeping us up. We got to get out here. Um, so I'd say we're very different in that way. I'd say in terms of similarness, we're both very competitive. I mean, you do not want to play a board game with the two of us. And that's actually worse than introducing a guy to my dad is my dad's always like, let's play pickleball.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Let's play a board game together. Let's do a puzzle together. And the second you do that, like the guy's like trying to put two pieces together. My dad's like grabs the pieces out of his hands, like shoving them together. So that is actually when it's really nerve wracking to put a guy around my dad. Like pickleball with my dad, he like puts on his glasses. Boom, boom, boom.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Some sustainable face gem company sent face gems to Sophia. I was like, burn those things. What? She was like, these are immaculate.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
It was a heart to heart. And you were a little mad at me because I said you needed to break up with your boyfriend.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
She was in her bag. Of course. Why did you think she needed to break up with him? He was like, I just think if you were a senator, it'd be hard for the kids.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I think honestly, it's not about it. I mean, for me, I had to find myself first because I was so insecure. I was going into Stanford. I wanted to be pre-med because I knew my sister was pre-med and I wanted to do that better. And figuring out, I'm still figuring myself out, but having confidence in myself and my own decisions was a big thing. And now in the company, each having our own lanes.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And then I realized I was like, well, we're both very competitive people. What if instead of this being against each other, it could be together? And I think that's the thing is it's not like that has gone away, but we just drive each other so hard. We're both like foot to the gas pedal.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And also seeing that, like, frankly, you know, I was asleep in my bed and I hear one night Sophia in front of the mirror completely by herself go, this fake tan is developing wonderfully. Wakes me up so loud. Wakes me up. She's saying it over and over to herself. Crazy person. And I open my door and I see her butt naked in front of the mirror like this just by herself. No boys are over there.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And that was like I think finding out and really humanizing her for me was the biggest thing was gaining confidence and then humanizing her and then being like, wait, what if we took this like competitive energy and then brought it together to actually like build something? And now we've birthed Fia.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
So I'm on my journal request wave because I'm doing my stuff in women's reproductive health. So I was focusing on like access to birth control. access to abortion, et cetera, after Roe v. Wade was overturned. And so I'm all in this mindset of like, what if we work together on something, you know, joint activism-y? Because that's what we were both interested in at the time.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
And so our first idea together wasn't even going to be a company. We wanted to create like a smart Bluetooth tampon, low-key like an aura ring for your pussy. We realized very quickly there was no monetization model behind it. We didn't know how the hell we would do it. We honestly didn't know what it would really do. But that kind of kick-started this like crazy, I want to say almost manic, like
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Sense of like let's just come up with an idea lock ourselves in our dorm room for a week and like see what we can create we came up with I'm going to be honest with you the dumbest ideas for the first like month there were rumors spread all around campus that we had fallen off the earth that we had fallen in love with each other and so.
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
But as we keep building, the one thing we came back to was like our own experience of, okay, we're roommates. We're always arguing over clothes. And frankly, like it's kind of bullshit that the shopping environment hasn't developed in the last 10 years. Like how come I'm on a site and I don't know if I should buy an item or not?
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Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Why is an AI able to tell me, hey, this is a good deal or this is not a good deal? Where's my little shopping assistant? And so we're like, what if... we could create a shopping assistant or a shopping hack, be it your Kobe for shopping. So we were like, what if we did something like with our names together, Fia? And that's how the idea was originally born. But it took a lot of bad ideas.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I feel like we just birthed the child that we've been creating for the last year. It feels nuts. I'm like really excited though.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
I'm not going to lie.
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
We did a day where we wrote down our strengths and weaknesses and that was brutal. You two write about each other?
Call Her Daddy
Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business
Really? That we can never do it with our boyfriends ever in a million years. We're like, this is so much easier because I don't know how you don't take it home.