Pia Sinha

All men. Not just people going to bed. Yeah. I mean, I think that there's, you know, when I've worked in prisons that have younger people in there, I think that they're much more excited by interesting education schemes, interesting training schemes that, you know, that stimulate them rather than necessarily a job that, you know, they might not be ready for.

All men. Not just people going to bed. Yeah. I mean, I think that there's, you know, when I've worked in prisons that have younger people in there, I think that they're much more excited by interesting education schemes, interesting training schemes that, you know, that stimulate them rather than necessarily a job that, you know, they might not be ready for.

And I think Timson's got a, I mean, he's a savvy businessman amongst other things, and he wants a model that will succeed. And you used to work with James Simpson, didn't you? Yes, he was the chair of the Prison Reform Trust just before he became minister. So putting the age limit there is probably quite sensible.

And I think Timson's got a, I mean, he's a savvy businessman amongst other things, and he wants a model that will succeed. And you used to work with James Simpson, didn't you? Yes, he was the chair of the Prison Reform Trust just before he became minister. So putting the age limit there is probably quite sensible.

He wants people to come in when they're ready and they're able to do the job well so that they succeed at it rather than fail at it.

He wants people to come in when they're ready and they're able to do the job well so that they succeed at it rather than fail at it.

Well, I mean, I think that we know we need to change the narrative on the Daily Mail test. You know, why aren't people saying, does this pass the Guardian test? You know, why don't we want to live in a world that does that?

Well, I mean, I think that we know we need to change the narrative on the Daily Mail test. You know, why aren't people saying, does this pass the Guardian test? You know, why don't we want to live in a world that does that?

I think it's the best time. You've got new Labour government in, they've got a massive majority. Keir has said, you know, he's willing to go there with those unpopular decisions. And I want to know who he'd be unpopular towards. Is he kind of pandering to the right or the left? But... Do it. You know, this is the time to have courage. And it is. We were talking about it last time we were here.

I think it's the best time. You've got new Labour government in, they've got a massive majority. Keir has said, you know, he's willing to go there with those unpopular decisions. And I want to know who he'd be unpopular towards. Is he kind of pandering to the right or the left? But... Do it. You know, this is the time to have courage. And it is. We were talking about it last time we were here.

It's the worst kept secret that these are the things that that, you know, make rehabilitation better and stop kind of make safer communities. And if people are not swayed by the conditions in prisons argument, I think the bigger, more compelling argument is the economic argument. It costs so much to put someone in prison for something to not work.

It's the worst kept secret that these are the things that that, you know, make rehabilitation better and stop kind of make safer communities. And if people are not swayed by the conditions in prisons argument, I think the bigger, more compelling argument is the economic argument. It costs so much to put someone in prison for something to not work.

So if you look at the concept of justice reinvestment, you know, you're spending billions in the criminal justice industry. Take a portion of that and invest it in early intervention, the kinds of things that David was talking about. And you'll see that not only do you have safer communities, you have smaller sized prisons.

So if you look at the concept of justice reinvestment, you know, you're spending billions in the criminal justice industry. Take a portion of that and invest it in early intervention, the kinds of things that David was talking about. And you'll see that not only do you have safer communities, you have smaller sized prisons.

And then when you have smaller sized prisons with people who genuinely do need to be there, you can resource them to have the interventions they need. So that people, when they come out at the other end, you can have people who are better citizens and will create fewer victims. And I know that some of this sounds very sort of naive, but you have to start somewhere. And I think you're right.

And then when you have smaller sized prisons with people who genuinely do need to be there, you can resource them to have the interventions they need. So that people, when they come out at the other end, you can have people who are better citizens and will create fewer victims. And I know that some of this sounds very sort of naive, but you have to start somewhere. And I think you're right.

I think it's the absolute perfect timing. And you've got Timpson as a prison minister. It signals something, doesn't it? It's signaling something that we're wanting to make bold decisions. So let's bring it on.

I think it's the absolute perfect timing. And you've got Timpson as a prison minister. It signals something, doesn't it? It's signaling something that we're wanting to make bold decisions. So let's bring it on.

Look forward to it. Absolutely.

Look forward to it. Absolutely.