PJ Vogt

They're strongly opinionated.

They sometimes commit gaffes.

When you ask them about the gaffes, they are totally like, yep, I screwed that one up.

The thing that I most enjoyed about this story, which is what I'm always looking for, is that particularly in the second half, every time I spoke to someone as they were talking, I thought...

Everything they're saying makes sense.

I totally get it.

I would be nodding my head vigorously for the most part.

And then I would go talk to the next person who saw things completely differently.

And it would just spin my head the other way.

And I would think, well, this makes sense too.

And it was about trying to really do what I think we're all going to have to do a lot of soon, which is weigh competing, not totally reconcilable interests and really take them seriously.

And that was us trying to do it for this one thing.

I'll be honest with you.

I've been anti-human driver for about 50 years now.

50 years?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, have you ever seen a human drive a car, including yourself?

We're not that good.

No, I have no illusions about my driving skills.

I'm not that good.