PJ Vogt

So when you were at Little Debbie, it's like the machine that makes the snack cakes is... The tool is the tooling and then the snack cakes are the product of the tooled machine?

Just one more example in case you are as unfamiliar with this as I was. Picture a factory that's making spoons. The spoon starts out as a blank piece of metal, but there's a machine like a cookie cutter and a thing pushing the metal into the cookie cutter that shapes it into a spoon. That machine is the tool and die.

Just one more example in case you are as unfamiliar with this as I was. Picture a factory that's making spoons. The spoon starts out as a blank piece of metal, but there's a machine like a cookie cutter and a thing pushing the metal into the cookie cutter that shapes it into a spoon. That machine is the tool and die.

Just one more example in case you are as unfamiliar with this as I was. Picture a factory that's making spoons. The spoon starts out as a blank piece of metal, but there's a machine like a cookie cutter and a thing pushing the metal into the cookie cutter that shapes it into a spoon. That machine is the tool and die.

This was a light bulb moment for me in the conversation. The problem is not just that we've forgotten a lot about how to make things in America. It's that we're also forgetting how to make the things that make the things. Meaning, in our factories, there are machines. The machines build the parts that the workers assemble into American products.

This was a light bulb moment for me in the conversation. The problem is not just that we've forgotten a lot about how to make things in America. It's that we're also forgetting how to make the things that make the things. Meaning, in our factories, there are machines. The machines build the parts that the workers assemble into American products.

This was a light bulb moment for me in the conversation. The problem is not just that we've forgotten a lot about how to make things in America. It's that we're also forgetting how to make the things that make the things. Meaning, in our factories, there are machines. The machines build the parts that the workers assemble into American products.

But the people who know how to handle the tooling to make those parts, I was beginning to realize that in America, those people are disappearing.

But the people who know how to handle the tooling to make those parts, I was beginning to realize that in America, those people are disappearing.

But the people who know how to handle the tooling to make those parts, I was beginning to realize that in America, those people are disappearing.

Can you introduce yourself, say who you are and what you do?

Can you introduce yourself, say who you are and what you do?

Can you introduce yourself, say who you are and what you do?

I've been doing this for 47 years. Wow. And do you remember when the business first started moving to China?

I've been doing this for 47 years. Wow. And do you remember when the business first started moving to China?

I've been doing this for 47 years. Wow. And do you remember when the business first started moving to China?

Chris said there used to be lots of tool and die makers back where he's from in Erie, Pennsylvania. They're mostly gone now. Many of them were his competitors, but also his friends. And with them, this whole part of the chain, parents teaching their kids, adults teaching their apprentices, Chris has watched as that chain's been broken. And why is that happening now?

Chris said there used to be lots of tool and die makers back where he's from in Erie, Pennsylvania. They're mostly gone now. Many of them were his competitors, but also his friends. And with them, this whole part of the chain, parents teaching their kids, adults teaching their apprentices, Chris has watched as that chain's been broken. And why is that happening now?

Chris said there used to be lots of tool and die makers back where he's from in Erie, Pennsylvania. They're mostly gone now. Many of them were his competitors, but also his friends. And with them, this whole part of the chain, parents teaching their kids, adults teaching their apprentices, Chris has watched as that chain's been broken. And why is that happening now?

Like, why is that sort of family chain getting broken at exactly this moment in time?