Professor Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones

Yeah, so we're told that Darius has already sent out these messengers to demand earth and water, which is the ritual that we talked about earlier. This is when the Athenians and the Spartans, we're told, sort of commit to this idea they reject that offer. So both of them essentially kill their messengers. So the Spartans kick them into a pit and the Athenians kick them into a well. Oh, okay.

Yeah, so we're told that Darius has already sent out these messengers to demand earth and water, which is the ritual that we talked about earlier. This is when the Athenians and the Spartans, we're told, sort of commit to this idea they reject that offer. So both of them essentially kill their messengers. So the Spartans kick them into a pit and the Athenians kick them into a well. Oh, okay.

This is Sparta kind of thing. It literally is that story, except that in Herodotus, obviously, this is recognized as a tremendous sacrilege for which both of these communities are said to pay dearly because no one accepts this, right?

This is Sparta kind of thing. It literally is that story, except that in Herodotus, obviously, this is recognized as a tremendous sacrilege for which both of these communities are said to pay dearly because no one accepts this, right?

This is Sparta kind of thing. It literally is that story, except that in Herodotus, obviously, this is recognized as a tremendous sacrilege for which both of these communities are said to pay dearly because no one accepts this, right?

The Spartans later send a couple of messengers to Xerxes to atone for this because they know they've committed a terrible sin in the eyes of everyone, like the whole Mediterranean world, everyone they know. And so they send a couple of messengers to Xerxes saying, please kill these men so that we're even.

The Spartans later send a couple of messengers to Xerxes to atone for this because they know they've committed a terrible sin in the eyes of everyone, like the whole Mediterranean world, everyone they know. And so they send a couple of messengers to Xerxes saying, please kill these men so that we're even.

The Spartans later send a couple of messengers to Xerxes to atone for this because they know they've committed a terrible sin in the eyes of everyone, like the whole Mediterranean world, everyone they know. And so they send a couple of messengers to Xerxes saying, please kill these men so that we're even.

And Xerxes, according to Herodotus, essentially laughs at them and says, no one is as evil as you. I would never do that. So in this sense, absolutely, the Spartans commit a horrible faux pas. But the idea there is that they are committing so strongly to that position, we will not bow down to the Persians, that they even reject the idea of communicating with them.

And Xerxes, according to Herodotus, essentially laughs at them and says, no one is as evil as you. I would never do that. So in this sense, absolutely, the Spartans commit a horrible faux pas. But the idea there is that they are committing so strongly to that position, we will not bow down to the Persians, that they even reject the idea of communicating with them.

And Xerxes, according to Herodotus, essentially laughs at them and says, no one is as evil as you. I would never do that. So in this sense, absolutely, the Spartans commit a horrible faux pas. But the idea there is that they are committing so strongly to that position, we will not bow down to the Persians, that they even reject the idea of communicating with them.

That's essentially what they're saying. And the Athenians likewise. Now, exactly why they do this is kind of obscure. I mean, it's not really motivated, except that obviously the Greeks, they want autonomy, etc. For the Athenians, more likely is that they didn't expect any mercy.

That's essentially what they're saying. And the Athenians likewise. Now, exactly why they do this is kind of obscure. I mean, it's not really motivated, except that obviously the Greeks, they want autonomy, etc. For the Athenians, more likely is that they didn't expect any mercy.

That's essentially what they're saying. And the Athenians likewise. Now, exactly why they do this is kind of obscure. I mean, it's not really motivated, except that obviously the Greeks, they want autonomy, etc. For the Athenians, more likely is that they didn't expect any mercy.

They didn't want to bow down to someone who might reinstate the tyrant Hippias or in some other way, overthrow the Athenian democracy or endanger their interests. For the Spartans, most likely they can't tolerate another hegemon on the block. The Spartans are the most powerful Greek state in this period. They are used to ruling essentially the Peloponnese. That's their backyard.

They didn't want to bow down to someone who might reinstate the tyrant Hippias or in some other way, overthrow the Athenian democracy or endanger their interests. For the Spartans, most likely they can't tolerate another hegemon on the block. The Spartans are the most powerful Greek state in this period. They are used to ruling essentially the Peloponnese. That's their backyard.

They didn't want to bow down to someone who might reinstate the tyrant Hippias or in some other way, overthrow the Athenian democracy or endanger their interests. For the Spartans, most likely they can't tolerate another hegemon on the block. The Spartans are the most powerful Greek state in this period. They are used to ruling essentially the Peloponnese. That's their backyard.

They want to be top dog. They don't like the idea of anybody else coming in, telling them what to do. And that is very much more of a rivalry than an ideological resistance. And so in this period, the Greeks, those two states are essentially heading the resistance. And they are the ones who are saying, OK, we will not bow down.

They want to be top dog. They don't like the idea of anybody else coming in, telling them what to do. And that is very much more of a rivalry than an ideological resistance. And so in this period, the Greeks, those two states are essentially heading the resistance. And they are the ones who are saying, OK, we will not bow down.

They want to be top dog. They don't like the idea of anybody else coming in, telling them what to do. And that is very much more of a rivalry than an ideological resistance. And so in this period, the Greeks, those two states are essentially heading the resistance. And they are the ones who are saying, OK, we will not bow down.