Professor Mariana Mazzucato

Why do they have all these case studies on global firms around the world?

Because we value business, which we should.

Business is important.

Do we value public institutions?

No.

We just roll our eyes at bureaucracies.

We end up saying, too much red tape, too much planning.

Again, go back to Tony Blair's very un-innovative essay.

That's the usual kind of narrative of what's holding things back, as opposed to saying, what actually happened, say, at GDS, Government Digital Services, in that particular five-year period where they really did incredible work?

Like, what can we learn from the culture within that organization, how they attracted top talent?

Why did they say, the first thing they said was, people are not clients and customers.

They are users with human rights, and we need to design, you know, gov.uk to make that user experience much more innovative and kind of nourishing.

Let's learn from that.

So learning from organizational learning.

or local places in public institutions and having learning between them, sharing between mayors, whether it's Newcastle, York, and so on, on what works, what doesn't, there's very little of that.

Also, because as soon as you mess up, as soon as you fail, you're in the front page of the paper.

Whereas venture capitalists and entrepreneurs love it when they fail because then they say, look, yeah, I had to fail 10 times to succeed.

That's why I'm a risk taker.

We don't allow that learning by doing.

And that's why I've been helping countries think about GovLabs.