Professor Mariana Mazzucato

That's not what the book's about.

Capitalism can be done differently.

It's the opposite.

What I say is that we're relying on people to just rely on goodwill.

Oh, companies might do some corporate social responsibility.

Oh, we might have Amazon doing a little...

the company, not the horse, doing a bit of bad here.

Oh, but they have the Bezos Earth Fund there.

So this philanthropization of global capitalism, I think it's bringing us back to the Middle Ages, where we had the benefactors, where we had to wait for someone to do good because the system was not working.

What I say is go to the contracts.

We have 80% of industrial wastewater is not recycled.

The contract, the state is giving Pepsi-Cola, Anheuser-Busch water rights, because that happens around the world, the contract.

So

So the whole relational value thing is not just a philosophical issue.

Water rights, property rights, procurement contracts, bailouts, public loans do not embody the good.

Hold on.

That's a whole different point.

So in the 1970s, when government was much more directive and it ended up picking winners, picking sectors, whatever, that went wrong.

Government should

pick problems, and the book is also about how to pick the problems, but let's just leave that for now, that require all sectors to change.