Rachel Abrams

I want to bring up another one of the administration's critiques, which is something you hear a ton from the right and have heard it for a while, which is that universities, particularly elite universities like Princeton, Harvard, Yale, the Ivies, they are not representative enough of the broader public politically.

I want to bring up another one of the administration's critiques, which is something you hear a ton from the right and have heard it for a while, which is that universities, particularly elite universities like Princeton, Harvard, Yale, the Ivies, they are not representative enough of the broader public politically.

And of course, that's important because our judges, our lawyers, people that are incredibly influential in shaping society often come out of institutions like yours. And so this is shaping not just how students think, but it is shaping American culture more broadly. And that is why it is important to take a strong and aggressive stand. I'm curious, what do you make of that argument, first of all?

And of course, that's important because our judges, our lawyers, people that are incredibly influential in shaping society often come out of institutions like yours. And so this is shaping not just how students think, but it is shaping American culture more broadly. And that is why it is important to take a strong and aggressive stand. I'm curious, what do you make of that argument, first of all?

And how important is it for a university to reflect the broader political ideologies of the country? Is it a problem that most universities are probably left of center?

And how important is it for a university to reflect the broader political ideologies of the country? Is it a problem that most universities are probably left of center?

I totally hear you that, like, you don't want to platform ideas that you don't believe in, such as bad science around climate change. But I'm sure you can understand how conservatives might hear what you just said and think that their viewpoints are not necessarily as welcome as other viewpoints on campus. Christopher Rufo, I'm sure you're familiar with him.

I totally hear you that, like, you don't want to platform ideas that you don't believe in, such as bad science around climate change. But I'm sure you can understand how conservatives might hear what you just said and think that their viewpoints are not necessarily as welcome as other viewpoints on campus. Christopher Rufo, I'm sure you're familiar with him.

He has been pushing a lot of the ideas that the administration is now using, it seems, to— make this broadside against higher education. He's been arguing for years that universities are too, quote-unquote, woke, that DEI is a problem. He said something that I'm thinking of as you're talking right now.

He has been pushing a lot of the ideas that the administration is now using, it seems, to— make this broadside against higher education. He's been arguing for years that universities are too, quote-unquote, woke, that DEI is a problem. He said something that I'm thinking of as you're talking right now.

He said, if conservatives want to protect the American way of life, they must be willing to lay siege to the institutions and reorient them according to their own values. Clearly, people like Rufo—and clearly, he's got some powerful people who are listening to him— are thinking that what you just articulated is not enough.

He said, if conservatives want to protect the American way of life, they must be willing to lay siege to the institutions and reorient them according to their own values. Clearly, people like Rufo—and clearly, he's got some powerful people who are listening to him— are thinking that what you just articulated is not enough.

And that is the reason why the administration is taking such an aggressive approach. And so I just wonder, like, do you need to rethink what you just told me, basically?

And that is the reason why the administration is taking such an aggressive approach. And so I just wonder, like, do you need to rethink what you just told me, basically?

I want to go back to the storytelling for a moment and go back to Columbia, which capitulated pretty quickly to what the administration wanted. And I want to get your reaction to that. But I also want to read you a quote that you gave, I believe it was to PBS, when Columbia was sort of in the midst of all of this. You said, So I'd like to know,

I want to go back to the storytelling for a moment and go back to Columbia, which capitulated pretty quickly to what the administration wanted. And I want to get your reaction to that. But I also want to read you a quote that you gave, I believe it was to PBS, when Columbia was sort of in the midst of all of this. You said, So I'd like to know,

Did what Columbia did make your job harder as you're now trying to figure out how to deal with the administration? And are you talking to other university presidents to try to come up with some kind of a united front, much in the way that we're seeing some of the law firms that are under fire talking to each other to try to stand up for each other and present a united front?

Did what Columbia did make your job harder as you're now trying to figure out how to deal with the administration? And are you talking to other university presidents to try to come up with some kind of a united front, much in the way that we're seeing some of the law firms that are under fire talking to each other to try to stand up for each other and present a united front?

Wow, because you're viewing this as a crisis.

Wow, because you're viewing this as a crisis.