Rachel Aviv

And then I think there was like this sense for Alice that the writing was the most important thing and that she was sort of.

And then I think there was like this sense for Alice that the writing was the most important thing and that she was sort of.

on a kind of existential level, like living in this, in a way that's hard to describe, where she was sort of watching and not totally present and maybe not able to really feel her daughter's experience, whether it was dissociation or some sort of artistic distance that had become her mode of living.

on a kind of existential level, like living in this, in a way that's hard to describe, where she was sort of watching and not totally present and maybe not able to really feel her daughter's experience, whether it was dissociation or some sort of artistic distance that had become her mode of living.

You know, there's this, that line really resonates because there's this story she wrote years before where a girl is sort of being abused sexually, like sort of being groped on a train. Which one is this? This is Wild Swans. And she says, you know, she just wanted to see what will happen. It's almost the same language, the sense of like...

You know, there's this, that line really resonates because there's this story she wrote years before where a girl is sort of being abused sexually, like sort of being groped on a train. Which one is this? This is Wild Swans. And she says, you know, she just wanted to see what will happen. It's almost the same language, the sense of like...

I'm just going to kind of keep going here because I'm so curious.

I'm just going to kind of keep going here because I'm so curious.

And she describes herself as victim and accomplice. And there's this sense of feeling like an accomplice because of that curiosity, of that wanting it to happen or wanting to not interfere with the action that will come to her.

And she describes herself as victim and accomplice. And there's this sense of feeling like an accomplice because of that curiosity, of that wanting it to happen or wanting to not interfere with the action that will come to her.

Probably. I mean, I feel like it was more helpless than that because, of course, she had deep wounds from her own life. Right.

Probably. I mean, I feel like it was more helpless than that because, of course, she had deep wounds from her own life. Right.

In sort of complex dynamics, it was a power game, sort of. She would be beaten, and then her mother would sort of come to her like a supplicant with all these treats and she would sort of resist and then she would fall back into it.

In sort of complex dynamics, it was a power game, sort of. She would be beaten, and then her mother would sort of come to her like a supplicant with all these treats and she would sort of resist and then she would fall back into it.

And I think, you know, like there's this language of like art monsters, which like sure applies, but I also feel like it's maybe less interesting or true to the experience of, you know, just being very wounded and sort of finding a man who kind of speaks to those wounds.

And I think, you know, like there's this language of like art monsters, which like sure applies, but I also feel like it's maybe less interesting or true to the experience of, you know, just being very wounded and sort of finding a man who kind of speaks to those wounds.

No, no, not to heal them. To allow her to sort of unknowingly replicate patterns from her childhood.

No, no, not to heal them. To allow her to sort of unknowingly replicate patterns from her childhood.

Yeah. I mean... It's just like an incredible level of sort of living, of performing. And I think she's spoken about that a lot in interviews, of feeling like she is two women. One is the woman who's sort of being what other people want her to be. And the other is the woman who's sort of living a solitary, kind of watchful, removed existence. And so...

Yeah. I mean... It's just like an incredible level of sort of living, of performing. And I think she's spoken about that a lot in interviews, of feeling like she is two women. One is the woman who's sort of being what other people want her to be. And the other is the woman who's sort of living a solitary, kind of watchful, removed existence. And so...