Rachel Bernstein

speaker

90 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard Apr 2025 last heard Apr 2025

Rachel Bernstein’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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Nobody Should Believe Me · Case Files 15: Everyday Cults with Rachel Bernstein · 10 Apr 2025 podcast

Oh, it is my pleasure. This is such an important discussion. It taps into so many different issues. And it was a pleasure to speak with you before. And I was really looking forward to what I think is going to feel like a continuation of our conversation today.

Yeah, it's interesting because when I was growing up, I had a sibling who got involved in a cult, so it was sort of dinner table conversation about, you know, that this can happen to someone and they can get kind of plucked out of their own life and out of their own sense of reality and not know what's real and have a whole misdirection about whom to trust and whom not to. And that...

It can be so compelling and so immediate and that you can see this personality shift. And I thought, what is that? I mean, are there people out in corners like trying to hypnotize people? Because you don't see that. So where are these people and how do they get their talents in? And why is it that it's so effective?

I realized as I was graduating with my teaching credentials, which I loved doing, and I, again, still do, I really wanted to do this work. We couldn't find resources at the time for therapists, counselors, social workers, anyone who kind of really knew about this in the 70s, 80s. And I thought, well, why don't I do this too? So I went on for a master's and then just really found it fascinating.

In fact, the professor who taught the group therapy course in my master's program actually ran it like a cult, which was very interesting. And I think she didn't do that on purpose to teach a lesson. I just noticed. And I went to the dean to say the following things are happening. And the dean was actually pretty alarmed.

And it helped me realize, too, that this can happen in so many different places and kind of under people's noses and under the guise of teaching. And with the trappings of it being something professional and with a teacher who's teaching at USC in a master's program and should be able to be trusted. Just because someone's wearing a lab coat doesn't mean you can trust them.

So just because someone's sitting in the therapist chair doesn't mean you can trust them. Just even though someone has taken on the role of parent doesn't mean you can trust them. And so how do you discern? So that sort of became my thing. And that's why I decided after 30 some odd years of doing this, I was listening to so many people's stories in my office and then on Zoom.

Um, and I thought, you know, I want other people to hear this because these are kind of cautionary tales and hearing how people also broke free. Just how do you champion your own rights when it's hard to figure out who to lean on to like, where does that power come from inside of yourself? And also who is out there who can help? And, and so understanding kind of what it, what is true about our,

natures as human beings. Like you and I can say, we know a lot about manipulation and control and coercion, but we have this internal locus of control that would stop us from using it against someone. Instead, we use it to teach and to prevent and which is a very different trajectory. And other people would say, oh, look, I have this knowledge. I have this skill.

Let me use it for my own gain, which is a very different kind of personality and very scary.

So it was a class instructing people who were studying to become therapists about ways to run support groups. You walk into a room, the professor is there, and there is a circle of chairs as though it's a support group. And we all sat down and we were told to share about ourselves. So people started sharing and it was fascinating. In the first class, there was already a hierarchy.

There was already the more liked group. the people who had shared more, the people who had more tragedy, the people who had more trauma, the people who revealed more about themselves, they were more liked. And that came through with smiles. And the teacher actually got up and hugged a few people after they shared. And two of the people, she said she couldn't hear them speaking all that clearly.

Could they move closer? So they got a seat next to her. And then you could see the next class, people who needed that, who needed to be like at the cool kids table or who just needed that affirmation or needed that. her to be this parent, because she was older than other people in the room by and large.

She started taking people out for coffee, but only the people who had shared, only the people who had something that really was a trauma of some sort. And there were people who I could see their eyes trailing off as they were telling a story. And then their eyes would come back into the room and they would look to see if she was engaged in what they were saying.

And if she seemed to not be so engaged, they would kind of turn up the volume on their story. And so there were people who would tell a story and then say, I really, you know what, I want to add more to my story. And when people say that, it could be that now they feel comfortable. It could be that they realize it wasn't compelling enough to get them a front row seat.

So there was so much happening in that space. And I remember talking to a friend of the family, a friend of my mom's actually, who was a psychologist for many years. I was telling her about this. And I said, you know, There's also this language of withholding and resistance. So if you don't share, you're withholding and you're not being kind to the other people in the room who have shared.

So there was this guilt and a sense of responsibility you then had to other people to share because after all they did. So why do you feel like you can hide out and be selfish with your information? And then also, why are you being so resistant? What is it about your past that makes you so resistant to sharing?

So the psychologist who I love, who is a professor, she said, why don't you do a social experiment? This woman's not your therapist. These are not your friends. This is a class. make up a story. So, I just went and the next time there was a class, I just made up a story, which was very uncomfortable for me because I'm a straight shooter.

And I thought, but it's worth it for this experiment because I was already planning to talk to the dean. I thought, let me have my material that I need to use to bring to him. So, I just said, you know, that time that I talked about having that illness when I was young and I almost died and You know what? It made me fearful for the rest of my life. And it's true. I was very sensitive.

I had Stevens-Johnson syndrome when I was a year and a half. And it can be fatal if it's not treated. And it left me with very sensitive skin and different physical issues. But I got past it. And I just said, I have never gotten past it. The amount of attention paid to me suddenly. People got up. I was surrounded. They hugged me. The teacher invited me to join for coffee later.

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