Regina Barber

And was probably similar to an amphibian, with some key differences.

And was probably similar to an amphibian, with some key differences.

And was probably similar to an amphibian, with some key differences.

Fernando Garcia Moreno is an evolutionary and developmental neurobiologist. He says for a long time there's been a debate about how amniote brains, like birds and mammals, evolved, and what makes them similar. One brain structure called the pallium has been seen as a comparable structure in birds, mammals, and reptiles.

Fernando Garcia Moreno is an evolutionary and developmental neurobiologist. He says for a long time there's been a debate about how amniote brains, like birds and mammals, evolved, and what makes them similar. One brain structure called the pallium has been seen as a comparable structure in birds, mammals, and reptiles.

Fernando Garcia Moreno is an evolutionary and developmental neurobiologist. He says for a long time there's been a debate about how amniote brains, like birds and mammals, evolved, and what makes them similar. One brain structure called the pallium has been seen as a comparable structure in birds, mammals, and reptiles.

In mammals, the structure is near the top of the brain. It's sometimes called the cerebral cortex, and it includes an area called the neocortex, plus some other key structures.

In mammals, the structure is near the top of the brain. It's sometimes called the cerebral cortex, and it includes an area called the neocortex, plus some other key structures.

In mammals, the structure is near the top of the brain. It's sometimes called the cerebral cortex, and it includes an area called the neocortex, plus some other key structures.

Birds and reptiles don't have a neocortex. So some scientists say mammal brains are totally unique. They must have evolved completely separately from birds and reptiles. But other researchers say while birds and reptiles may not have a neocortex, they do have some of the same neurons. They're just in different places.

Birds and reptiles don't have a neocortex. So some scientists say mammal brains are totally unique. They must have evolved completely separately from birds and reptiles. But other researchers say while birds and reptiles may not have a neocortex, they do have some of the same neurons. They're just in different places.

Birds and reptiles don't have a neocortex. So some scientists say mammal brains are totally unique. They must have evolved completely separately from birds and reptiles. But other researchers say while birds and reptiles may not have a neocortex, they do have some of the same neurons. They're just in different places.

This side of the debate says maybe bird brains and mammal brains are more similar than they seem. So Fernando and his lab try to figure out how these structures develop, and if that process could tell us anything about what makes our brains different from bird brains. So today on the show, how does nature make a brain?

This side of the debate says maybe bird brains and mammal brains are more similar than they seem. So Fernando and his lab try to figure out how these structures develop, and if that process could tell us anything about what makes our brains different from bird brains. So today on the show, how does nature make a brain?

This side of the debate says maybe bird brains and mammal brains are more similar than they seem. So Fernando and his lab try to figure out how these structures develop, and if that process could tell us anything about what makes our brains different from bird brains. So today on the show, how does nature make a brain?

Why the phrase bird brains could be a misnomer, and why humans may not be as special as we think. I'm Regina Barber, and you're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR.

Why the phrase bird brains could be a misnomer, and why humans may not be as special as we think. I'm Regina Barber, and you're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR.

Why the phrase bird brains could be a misnomer, and why humans may not be as special as we think. I'm Regina Barber, and you're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR.

Okay, so Fernando, we're talking about how your study found that bird and mammal brains develop like through different processes. And so you're looking at these palliums of birds, reptiles, and mammals. And what did you find?

Okay, so Fernando, we're talking about how your study found that bird and mammal brains develop like through different processes. And so you're looking at these palliums of birds, reptiles, and mammals. And what did you find?