Regina Barber

I'm Rachel Carlson. And I'm Regina Barber. You're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR. OK, Rachel, so when people say drugs like psychedelics and ketamine can help treat different conditions, there could be a few things happening.

I'm Rachel Carlson. And I'm Regina Barber. You're listening to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR. OK, Rachel, so when people say drugs like psychedelics and ketamine can help treat different conditions, there could be a few things happening.

Any beneficial effects of the drug could be related to, one, simply mentally and therapeutically preparing to take a drug like a psychedelic, two, the experience of actually taking it like the trip, or three, the effect of the drug itself on a person's brain, right?

Any beneficial effects of the drug could be related to, one, simply mentally and therapeutically preparing to take a drug like a psychedelic, two, the experience of actually taking it like the trip, or three, the effect of the drug itself on a person's brain, right?

Any beneficial effects of the drug could be related to, one, simply mentally and therapeutically preparing to take a drug like a psychedelic, two, the experience of actually taking it like the trip, or three, the effect of the drug itself on a person's brain, right?

And for anyone listening who also doesn't know what it is, ketamine isn't a psychedelic like LSD or psilocybin, mushrooms. Those seem to work on different receptors in the brain. But like you said, Rachel, ketamine can kind of have like similar effects to psychedelics depending on like the dose a person takes.

And for anyone listening who also doesn't know what it is, ketamine isn't a psychedelic like LSD or psilocybin, mushrooms. Those seem to work on different receptors in the brain. But like you said, Rachel, ketamine can kind of have like similar effects to psychedelics depending on like the dose a person takes.

And for anyone listening who also doesn't know what it is, ketamine isn't a psychedelic like LSD or psilocybin, mushrooms. Those seem to work on different receptors in the brain. But like you said, Rachel, ketamine can kind of have like similar effects to psychedelics depending on like the dose a person takes.

Right, because patients usually know if they've gotten the drug or the placebo.

Right, because patients usually know if they've gotten the drug or the placebo.

Right, because patients usually know if they've gotten the drug or the placebo.

OK, so these patients like Cindy are going like under anesthesia for their surgeries and then they either get ketamine or they don't. Exactly.

OK, so these patients like Cindy are going like under anesthesia for their surgeries and then they either get ketamine or they don't. Exactly.

OK, so these patients like Cindy are going like under anesthesia for their surgeries and then they either get ketamine or they don't. Exactly.

And?

And?

And?

So you're saying that even though she got ketamine, her feeling better could also have been like related to these other parts of the experience, like working closely with Boris and like feeling like people are actually like listening to her.

So you're saying that even though she got ketamine, her feeling better could also have been like related to these other parts of the experience, like working closely with Boris and like feeling like people are actually like listening to her.

So you're saying that even though she got ketamine, her feeling better could also have been like related to these other parts of the experience, like working closely with Boris and like feeling like people are actually like listening to her.