Rick Perry
Appearances
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I'm completely and absolutely convinced that the data will back up what we're talking about. And we'll visit about this clinical trial, I'm sure, in the next couple hours.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Now, Schedule 1 says that there is no medical purpose for this compound, whatever it might be, and that it's addictive. And Ibogaine is neither of those. I mean, clearly evidence – as a matter of fact, if there was a definition of a compound that was not Schedule 1, Ibogaine would be – the top of the list, most likely.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And I think for the purpose of educating the public, we go back and understand the early 70s, what Nixon was using these compounds for, for a political purpose. And he gathered them all up, swept them all up and put everything under schedule one so he could go after his political enemies. Yes. Using these compounds as the vehicle to do that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Yeah. You look at the history of how I got there. And, you know, I grew up on a... Dryland Cotton Farm, about as conservative a part of the world as you could be. I went to school at Texas A&M. I wanted to be a pilot in the United States Air Force.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I mean, drugs were absolutely not anything that I wanted to have anything to do with because at that particular point in time, in the early 70s and in the mid-70s, we got drug tested on a monthly basis. No notice drug testing. You go pee in a in a bottle and they test you. And if there was one time that you didn't pass that drug test, you were done.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And so the fear factor of drugs was driven into us. You go forward with the you know, the. The political messaging through those years, your brain on drugs, the just say no to drugs. I mean, and on the one hand, that's a good message. On the other hand, when they're used just for political purposes and you. Put compounds on schedule one like Ibogaine and it can't even be used for clinical trials.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
It can't be medically used to see is there some good that can come out of this. And the fascinating thing for me, Joe, is that Mexico, this is a compound that can be used. Canada, I think Australia, France. I mean, there's a host of countries around the world that allow for Ibogaine to be used for clinical trials and for medical purposes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Yet we're sitting here with 20 plus veterans a day killing themselves. Yet we have a compound that clearly the data shows that this compound appropriately used and appropriately overseen can absolutely change lives. and save lives. And for me to be able to know that and then still see government say, no, we're not interested is really frustrating.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And it's why I'm so excited about, you know, Bobby Kennedy, you know, Jay Bhattacharya,
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
uh... doctor oz nolan williams individuals who may come into this administration is very high levels uh... that are supportive of plant medicine so i think we've got this great opportunity we've been given this gift and i hope you know you got members of congress that uh... are supportive of this on both sides of the aisle this in a Partisan issue of any sense of the imagination.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
So I'm I'm really excited about the potential of being able to get clinical trials done, move this off of schedule one into worst case scenario, schedule two, even schedule three, so that we get broad amount of trials done so that. People who have questions about it, those can be answered, and they can see the data.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I mean, we'll talk about this clinical trial out of Stanford that is just stunning results.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Brian, you want to hit that one, or you want me to take it?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
The treatments down in Mexico are flood doses. This was a micro dosing that they did over there. But again, it gets to my point of this is exactly why we as the United States and with our medical capacity in this country need to be doing this type of clinical trial so that we We find out, is this really what we think it is?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And if it is, this needs to be widespread treatment for MS, for Parkinson's, for addictions, for PTSD, for traumatic brain injury. I mean, I think we're on the cusp of some extraordinary medical breakthroughs because of this compound ibogaine.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
It's kind of a long story, so we got the time, if you don't mind, I'll just take you back. 2006, my wife made me go on vacation, which I don't necessarily do very good because I have a little bit of ADHD, and vacations are sitting on the beach someplace that's not high on my list of good things to do. But anyway, I went with her, and she took me to Coronado Island,
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
If it's too good to be true, it's probably too good to be true. Right. Right. But I would have said that myself until I've seen with my own eyes. I've been studying this. You ask a little bit more about in 2017, I went to Washington to be the Secretary of Energy. I asked Morgan Luttrell, Marcus's twin brother, former Navy SEAL, was working on his Ph.D. in brain science.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
If he would put that on hold and come with me up to D.C. to work at the Department of energy and Morgan did and he was over in a in a part of the agency where we have oversight of all the supercomputers in the are the bulk of the supercomputers in the United States our national labs have and we have some partnerships with different universities the University of San Francisco
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
University of California, San Francisco, and a researcher out there named Jeffrey Manley, MD, PhD. And he was doing some studies on the brain for traumatic brain injury. And they were scanning the brain using our supercomputers at the Department of Energy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And Morgan was helping him oversee that as they were going through it because of his obvious background and his study on brain science and what have you. And that's the first time I ever heard about anyone going to Mexico to be treated with this plant medicine was through Morgan. And I kind of picked it up, you know, in a conversation that he was having.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And, you know, it kind of put me back on my heels a little bit. And I was like. Morgan, you need to be careful with that now. Yes, sir. But anyway, that was where I heard about Ibogaine for the first time was in probably late 2017, early 2018. And then as I started educating myself about it, I was curious about it. Does this work and why does it work? Then it's led to this study. Nolan
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
and the Hotel Del, which is a fascinatingly interesting place. But my security detail went out early, and they were stopped there, I think, on Orange. And Orange Drive, the little breakfast nook. And they walked in where they were supposed to meet the California Highway Patrol to do our advance.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Dr. Nolan Williams, Ph.D., M.D. at Stanford, oversaw the study that Brian just did a fabulous job of laying out there. 30 vats. They all had moderate to severe PTSD. They were all given a clinical psychological exam that put them into the moderate to severe PTSD range. Some of them had traumatic brain injury. Some of them had alcohol issues.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I think eight out of the 30 had tried to kill themselves. I mean, this was a highly overseen group that were treated. And the results, 88 percent, Joe, 88 percent of those individuals six months later had zero symptoms. Not a little bit better. They had zero symptoms of PTSD. And I talked to Nolan within a few days ago, and it appears that even after a year that these –
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
symptoms are gone mean this is stunningly powerful work it again i sound like a broken record but it this is the reason that this country needs to put this into place so that we can clinically uh... trial it at various nissan replaces across this country at the v a at some of our great uh... medical institutions the private sector if this is what we think it is this could be the greatest
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
the greatest medicine brought to mankind in history.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I had a political consultant when I first started being public about this. A young man, in this case, called me up and he said, Hey, Governor, I heard you talking about this plant-based medicine and the use of psychedelics. What are you doing? He said, You're fixing to throw away 40 years of building up a good conservative reputation. He said, You need to be really, really careful with this.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
What are you doing? And I told him, I said, listen, I get your concern. I understand it. But I said two things. Number one, I have spent a lot of time studying this. I said I've read, I've talked to people. I've been to Mexico multiple times to observe this and to see it. And I said I'm convinced –
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And there was this big guy looked about like you, all buff and slicked off head and pretty healthy looking boy. And they thought that was the patrol when they were supposed to meet. They went over, introduced themselves and said, are you here to meet Governor Perry? And a guy went. No, but I vote for him every chance I get.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
of what I've seen is true and that what I've studied and what I've gone down and really put my arms around. I said, I'm convinced that this data is what it is and we need to move forward with this. But I said, I'll tell you what's even more important for me. my reputation is not worth more than their lives. And that's what drives me is that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
What I've seen, I believe, and I'm willing to put my reputation on the line. And I think, you know, when we see people like Marcus Luttrell and Morgan Luttrell and other members of Congress who have been treated and have publicly talked about that they have been to Mexico and they've been treated, Morgan will tell you it saved his marriage. Marcus will tell you it saved his life.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
That's powerful stuff. It's powerful stuff.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
It's interesting what you just said, how we mistreated our veterans. And I think this is really important. And Brian saw it firsthand over in Kentucky. I mean, you think about I started going down to Brooks Army Medical Center and the Burns Center down there. in 05 when kids started coming back from IED blast and they were burned. They're traumatized. And my sister-in-law worked down there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I'm the governor. I go down checking on some of the Texas kids who show up there and kids from other places as well. But that's where I started seeing, I'd walk in the burn center and there'd be a kid with a lollipop that was an opioid. And our government started literally handing out sackfuls of opioids and patting these kids on the butt and saying, you know, we'll see you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And we literally addicted a generation of our warfighters who got wounded both physically and mentally. And the government was giving them all of these opioids. Then they're masking that with alcohol. And we're sitting around going, gosh, I wonder why Billy and Bobby killed themselves.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And we were the reason because the government did such a poor job of dealing with this issue in the mid 2000s as we were. You know, we've been at war for 20 years now. I mean, when I think about the history of civilization. Has there ever been a time when a group of war fighters were ever in this much conflict for this long a period of time? I can't think of it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And this kid happened to be a JTAC with SEAL Team 5, who was a former or was an F-18 driver who was assigned to SEAL Team 5 to go out on their next assignment. And they just met him by the grace of God. And the kid gave him his card and said, hey, if the governor would like to go on a tour of the Special Warfare Center, I'd love to give him a tour.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
You go back all the way to prehistoric times. We fought wars for a short period of time. Then we spent a lot of time walking from one place to another. You just go back into America's history. And the Revolutionary War. And then the Civil War. You know, my grandfather was engaged in that conflict. And he wrote a book about it. And he talked about walking for weeks through mud and bad conditions.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And then they fought for maybe 48 hours. And then they spent... Then you go through up into World War I. Spend a little bit more time in combat. World War II. And we started seeing... people who were affected, what we call it, shell-shocked in World War II. Then Vietnam came along, and these young men were in conflict for a little period.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
We have literally had, particularly our special operators, the force recon guys, the Delta Force guys, the Navy SEALs, the Army Rangers, where they literally are in combat for weeks at a time, months at a time, and even when they're out of direct conflict because of that environment that they're in.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
They're always, you know, their hormone levels, you know, are through the roof because they're always on, head on a swivel, looking around. Is that person walking in here with the, you know, with the shawl on? Does it have, you know, an explosive in it? I mean, always on... The fear of being attacked, being harmed, is through the roof.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
These kids are all a bunch of guinea pigs from the standpoint of how... these traumatic events affect them. And our government's failed. And this is an opportunity for our government, both at the federal level and in the state level. And that's the reason that Brian has come to Texas to help us with the Texas Ibogaine Initiative.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
We're going to be introducing to the Texas legislature an initiative for clinical trial on Ibogaine I don't know all the details of it. Brian's probably got a better handle on it than me from that standpoint.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I look at this as we've been given this great gift of a parallel track with the federal government, with these individuals that hopefully are going to be coming in at HHS, at all of the under agencies that are involved there. And at the same time, Texas going with a parallel legislation to both educate the public about Ibogaine and to
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
do clinical trials so that we've got the data to back up the education process that's going on.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Well, the detail shows up next day, says, hey, we met this kid. And that's right down my alley, right? Rather than sitting on the beach, take me over and show me what the Special Warfare Center does. And on Saturday morning. We went over, got that tour, and this young man led the tour. And he had a big old tall drink of water with him in his camis that assisted with the tour.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
It took about three hours to finish this tour. We finish it, and this young man says, did Marcus tell you where he was last weekend? I said, no. He said, yes, sir, once, and no, sir, once. He said, well, he was at the White House receiving the Navy Cross. I know what the David Cross is. And I went back to the hotel room, looked it up on my computer.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
There's no mention of this Marcus Luttrell anywhere on my computer. And we had asked them to go have dinner with us that night, just to say thank you for their time and what have you. And that evening, as we get back to the restaurant... friend is asking him all questions about what was it that he did and the during the conversation operation red wing came up in the and we finished dinner
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I tell him, I said, look, give me your mom's phone number. I'll call her when we get back to Texas. And if you're ever through Austin, come by and see me. Right. Which I would tell to I probably told hundreds of people, Joe, if we had known each other in those days, I said, hey, Joe, if you ever through Austin, come by and see me.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Fat chance you're going to come and knock on the door of the governor's mansion. Right. Can't do it. So it's a nice thing to say, but realizing that they're not going to show up. Well, I went back, looked up Operation Red Wing, and that's when my computer kind of blew up and I figured out who this young man was.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And you remember in 2006, nobody had heard of this, didn't know who Marcus Luttrell was, what have you. So go on about our business. They leave. They deploy. Go back to Iraq. with his twin brother Morgan, I might add. Morgan and Marcus, they deployed together on that. And the young man who led that tour that day was a lieutenant commander in the Navy, F-18 pilot, by the name of Jake Elzey.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Jake Elzey is now a member of Congress. So, incredible small world for me that started totally by the grace of God of meeting these boys in Coronado Island and I called his mom when I got back to Austin, said, hey, saw your son, he's doing all right, and if I can ever help you, let me know. Went on about my business. That was in August of 06. The following May of 07,
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
The phone rang in the governor's mansion. The security detail said, there's a young man down here who said you told him the next time he's through Austin, Texas, come by and see you. And he's here. I said, that's hilarious. I said, what's his name? And Marcus Latrell. I said, yeah, I told him that. Well, send him in. That was in May of 07. And he lived with us for the next two and a half years.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
In August of 2009, he left. And that's what started me and my wife on this long journey, this adventure that has taken me to sitting at Joe Rogan's table talking about veterans' mental health. We've been down literally dozens of rabbit trails, frankly, the bulk of them. They were interesting, but they really didn't bring any relief, didn't bring any help.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
We learned about the brokenness of our government's ability to help these young men and women. Marcus literally was separated
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
from the uh... the navy uh... without the ability to have try carry he the only place he could get his health care job was at the v a and he had to have some very specific uh... surgeries on his back highly technical surgeries not on my son i'm not gonna let you go to the v a and had that done no offense but i said i'll go raise the money and find somebody
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
that we can get you the type of help that you need. And I went to Houston. I talked to a doctor there, Stan Jones, who's the chief medical officer for a stem cell company now called Celltex. But he had heard of Marcus by then. Marcus's book had come out, I think, in OH when it came out. and went to number one on the New York Times bestseller list.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
So people started to know who Marcus Luttrell was, knew his story, and we were able to get him the medical help that he needed. I also intervened at that time with the Secretary of the Navy, Ray Mabus. And I call Ray. Ray was the former governor of Mississippi, so I knew him through that role. And I told him, I said, here's what I've got. And I said, this kid is a legit American hero.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
So if you'll recall, I think four years ago, Marcus and Amber were involved with Marcus and Amber Capone were involved with the passage of a piece of legislation in Texas dealing with psilocybin clinical trials there. And, you know, there was some concern that it was not going to
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
It generally takes about three legislative sessions for a controversial piece of legislation to get passed in most cases. We actually passed that the first bite of the apple, so to speak. I think Alex Dominguez, who is a Democrat member of the Statehouse, carried it. I helped. Marcus Luttrell came and supported it, as did Morgan.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And I think it passed one hundred and forty two to eight in the statehouse. And I think it passed the Senate without any opposing votes. And and it became law. And so we had a already had a record that the state of Texas, a conservative red state would vote. support the use of a, in this case, a psychedelic plant medicine for the treatment of veterans.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
So we have this record of already supporting this. Ibogaine and The challenge for us is to be able to educate the public about what is Ibogaine. How does it work? What's the results? And I think we're going to be able to do that. This show, obviously, is a good step in that direction of being able to educate the public about Ibogaine.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
this extraordinary compound that has amazing results out there, giving people their lives back, resetting their brains, I mean, literally regenerating the brain, moving away from addictions with one treatment. I mean, just some stunning results. When you add Parkinson's and MS with this, then it's this broad base of being able to go out
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And to share with the people of the state of Texas that Texas can lead. As a matter of fact, our legislative session only lasts for 140 days every other year, which is a great concept. I wish more places would take a look at that as a way to do business. But we know that we've got to get our work done. At the same time, there's this parallel track going on in Washington, D.C. They'll take longer.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And I said, our government's just completely dropped the ball on being able to take care of him. And I said, I don't want to embarrass your boss, but I said, you need to get this kid back in, reevaluate him, get him not fit for duty so he can get eligible for TRICARE, of which they did. And my hat's off to them for doing that and doing it. It just took a
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
It's just, you know, that's a fact. But Texas can lead the nation here. What you started in Kentucky, and, you know, we can sit here and browbeat this, which we won't, about why that got killed in Kentucky. But I think the leadership of Kentucky will look over their shoulder one of these days and see that they absolutely lost a great opportunity to lead the nation.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
in the recovery of people who have lost their lives to opioids or to traumatic brain injury or to PTSD in some form or fashion. And Texas is going to wear that mantle. And I'm proud that Texas is going to lead that mantle. We've got great leadership in both the House and the Senate that understand this issue that we're going to spend time with to get a piece of legislation.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
The Texas Ibogaine Initiative is going to be known
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
uh... will look for those private sector partners will look for uh... most likely the v a to be a partner in this as well uh... and our university system so i i i just i'm very confident that with the proper education uh... the openness of this legislature the love of our veterans that we have in the state uh... that the texas ibogaine initiative uh... will uh... become the law of the land for the state of texas
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
The sadness of all of this, Joe, from my perspective, is Marcus Luttrell was just fortunate in a lot of different ways. That by the grace of God, he met a governor, a guy that could actually intervene and make a difference. There's literally thousands, thousands of young men and women out there today who have mental health issues that don't know a governor, don't have anybody to help.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Can I add something there just a second? Yes, sir. I want you to go. The Texas Medical Center in Houston, Texas. There are more doctors. Nurses, technicians, researchers go to work there every day than any other place in the world. It is that magnificent in not only its size, but its scope and its mission. You said a mouthful there, Brian, when you talked about how good Texas is.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
You look at Baylor, Scott & White, University of Texas Southwestern. I mean, we are blessed in this country to have some of the greatest medical facilities, you know, teaching schools, research institutions. And again, Joe, this kind of gets back to why this needs to be done in Texas. I mean, I'm totally biased here. I don't, you know, and I don't apologize for that. But our ability to
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
to do this work, to do it on a scale that is global. When this happens in the state of Texas, people around the world, whether they're in Moscow or Beijing or wherever they may be, they'll look at this and go, you know what? That is something that we would like to replicate in our country.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And that's why I've spent however many years, that's been 17 years, Helping, being open to all the different ways that we could help these young men and women. Back in 07, I helped create a foundation that buys homes. It's called Military Heroes Support Foundation. And they've given away 1,000 homes now. George Strait gives away one of their homes at every one of his concerts.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Well, I certainly hope that, you know, regardless of anybody's politics and this isn't a Republican or a Democrat issue. This is just a human being issue. This is about how do we take care of our and in our case. And somebody said, why are you so focused on the veterans?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And and I said, well, you know, it's partly the way I was raised and my father and his, you know, his World War two B-17 tail gunner. at the time in the 8th Air Force, and him teaching me to, you know, you need to give back to your country, and you need to give back to your state, you need to give back to your community, you need to find that place to go volunteer.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I mean, I was taught that by a wonderful, loving father and mother. The going off to school, serving in the Air Force, you know, having this heart for veterans, being the commander in chief of the Texas forces as we sent our young men and women off to this war against terror in 2003.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
and being engaged with them, traveling over to Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times while I was the governor and then as the secretary of energy, to be in their presence, to know this extraordinary group of young men and women who are willing to sacrifice their lives literally for us.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And then when they've been wounded, both physically and mentally, and they come home, and we did such a poor job of taking care of them, of recognizing what we had done to them and the lack of our ability. I was overcome with seeing the private sector trying to help Ross Perot Jr., excuse me, Ross Perot Sr., one of the greatest patriots I ever met in my life.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
What he did to help veterans who had been hurt during the war on terror. I mean, literally hundreds of young men and women who he gave wonderfully to. Seeing people like that and then our government failing. And for me, this is I spent 40 years in public service. You know, I think we do it pretty good in Texas by and large, but we don't do it perfect. I get that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
But what drove me and what still drives me is that we owe these young men and women everything that we can put together. And if there is a treatment out there, whether it's been put on Schedule 1 or not, we owe it to them to find a way to make it available to them. And so the veteran community is really special to me. I love them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
But they're also the easiest population to go sell to the general public. So if, you know, this whole thing about psychedelics and what we've been taught for 60 years that they're bad, they're, you know, stay away from them. Educating the public that. The dose is the poison in everything. This is a two-edged sword here. Everything can be used for good or everything can be used for bad.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And what we found here in the compound of Ibogaine is that, as you warn people about in your remarks, about don't go out there and buy it off the Internet. Do not. Go self-medicate yourself because there's a real opportunity that it wouldn't turn out good. But properly dosed, properly diagnosed, properly dosed, properly administered, properly followed up with.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
This can be a compound that literally can change millions of lives. At the start, we're focused on veterans because of the PTSD, the traumatic brain injury, the challenges that they've got. But when you look at the further populations out there, We worked pretty hard in the state of Texas to come up with ways to not send people to prison.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
But even if you are living in a great home, if you're in a mansion and your mind's not where it needs to be. You're just a lonely person, a sad person, a broken person in a beautiful home. But I've become a complete believer in plant medicine over the course of the last five or six years in particular. And the compound Ibogaine, I-B-O-G-A-I-N-E, That most people never heard of before.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
We put criminal justice reform in place in the early 2000s here. And it was a model. As a matter of fact, it was the model that President Trump used to put national criminal justice reform in place to be able to intervene before people ever went to prison where they would become professional criminals.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And it's that same concept here that we need to find ways to keep people out of prison, to keep people off the street. And in a lot of those cases, Joe, it's substance abuse that got them there. It's some mental health challenge that started them down the road of using either alcohol or some of these other substances.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And if we have at our disposal, if we have here a plant that God gave us that we can use, and literally it appears in a lot of cases, one treatment, and it takes away your desire to have another drink of alcohol. One treatment and save a person like Reed Elsass's life because of fentanyl.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I mean, if we've got that in our grasp, I mean, how bad you got to hate people to not make that available to us? Yes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
That's good and bad because it doesn't have a bad rap because nobody's heard of it before. My job and our job is to be able to educate the public about this plant medicine, this psychoactive medicine. plant medicine that absolutely is showing stunning ability to bring people back to normalcy, to reset their brains, to literally give them their lives back.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Well, obviously, uh, from a public standpoint in the state of Texas, if you have, uh, relationships with your state rep, your state, uh, senators, uh, the governor, uh, let them know that, uh, you know, you're spending some time learning about this and you're supportive of it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Um, for the veterans particularly, uh, is to, we're, we're going to, we're going to be doing major outreaches into the veteran community, uh, the same time that this is going on in Texas, you're going to be seeing a movement across the country at the federal level, at the congressional level. There's a number of the members of the legislature are very supportive of this.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
You've got, as I mentioned, with the incoming, hopefully the incoming administration of President Trump, Bobby Kennedy, Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Oz, a number of folks. Hopefully, you know, the rumor factory is that potentially Nolan Williams might be being considered for a position in the administration as well on the mental health side of things.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
There's never been a time to see the cards kind of being laid out on the table in a good way that we're going to have a winning hand here like we have right now. So one of my goals is to educate the public. There's a young lady that's going to be helping us here in Texas, Ann Claire Stapleton. and Claire was a former CNN international reporter.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
She's going to be coming in to Texas to help with the Texas Ibogaine Initiative to educate the media. That's a very important goal and role that we're going to be playing, making sure that the men and women out there in the news business understand this message this compound, understand what we're going to be doing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And so the education of the public, I'm convinced, Joe, that once the general public understands what this is, how it works, how it can be used in such a wonderful therapeutic way, and that the lives that can be saved, literally the lives that can be saved, at that particular point in time, then I think this becomes
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
a bit of a no-brainer, so to speak, and the general public will get behind this in a powerful way at that particular point in time, then it's about a question that you asked that's really important. How do you structure getting the treatment centers, getting the people trained? That's going to be a...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
It's a good problem to have, and I look forward to working with both the Texas medical community and the Texas legislature and the Texas citizenry at large to deal with it. We can. I'm excited about it. But I think, again, it has the potential to be as profound a positive impact on the practice of medicine, particularly in psychiatry, in the history of either of those.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I've made the decision that that's what I'm going to do for the rest of my however many years I got left. This is where I want to spend the bulk of my time
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
telling people about it explaining to people how this you know conservative right wing knuckle-dragging republican governor became a spokesperson willing to go publicly talk about this plant medicine that literally the data is i mean i i think the data is you can argue with the data uh... we'll we'll talk about a clinical trial that uh... they did out of stanford this last year that's how i went from
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
basically being a guy that wasn't even open to having a conversation about. In 2013, I got talked into, talking to a mother who had a son who's an epileptic, and she said the only thing that we can give our son that's relieved him of this is THC. And I was against any of the use of marijuana, medical or otherwise, in 2013. That mother came and sat down to me. I looked at the data.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I listened to her powerful story. And we passed in Texas. medical use of THC for the cases of epilepsy. And that's my point with all of this is that I'll never be for – I know I may not agree on this. I'm not for the legalization of drugs. I love Rick Doblin. Rick and I have been on multiple stages together. A lot of the works that he did at MAPS I'm a big supporter of.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
And I tell him, I said, but I'm not going to get there on the legalization of drugs. I'm just not. And I don't want to get that confused with what we're doing here. This is medically diagnosed, medically dosed, having the proper medical people there, the treatment, the follow-up, all of that. And that's one of the reasons that I think that our government – And thank God Donald Trump won.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
I'm very open about this, that Donald Trump won this election. He's putting people into place that are open to plant medicine being used for our veterans' mental health. And so I know I've covered a pretty broad piece of landscape in all of that that I've just talked about. That's how I got here.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
Over a 17-year period of time, I went from an absolute, don't even talk to me about these drugs, to being the Johnny Appleseed of Ibogaine today, where my wife probably gets tired of going places with me, and the next thing she knows, I'm talking to somebody about plant-based medicine.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
and what I've seen and why we as society need to be really pushing this, talking to our congressmen, talking to our senators, talking to the people that are decision makers, and the private sector, educating the public about this so that they know that there is help out there. And when you add to this the clear evidence that this works on addictions, and we're talking across the board, then
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard
the populations that could be affected in a powerful and a positive way is substantial. And I, you know, that's what God put us on this earth for is to be good servants. And this, I believe, has the most powerful way to affect the most people in a positive way of anything that I've ever seen in my public service, my 40 years of public service. So I am committed to it.