Rob Draper

You gave us some great background on Sir Alf Ramsey and England's run up to the World Cup.

We're now going to get into the immediate year before and the actual start of the finals.

And Jonathan, that was a great Jimmy Hill, one of your footballing heroes at the time.

He's

manager of Coventry City, a visionary in every way in football, a really good man, I think we can all agree.

But on a rare occasion, he's completely wrong about something.

There are all tons of views on Jimmy Hill anyway.

I know you're not a big fan of him, but he's a big football figure.

Well, I think the point is that it's quite representative of the chattering class of football at the time, but England are not rated.

People think they're a poor side and Ramsey's making maybe the best of a bad job.

I mean, he's not blaming Ramsey for that, but they don't think the players are much good.

And I'm very heartened to see that even in The Guardian, Albert Byram is talking about a sorry lack of spirit.

And people allude to the fact that there's an absence of passion.

So even in the 60s, I guess forever, it's been a standard go-to that when your team's playing,

It's because they don't care.

They're overpaid.

You know, if only they had the passion for it, then they would be better.

But Ramsay is... I mean, I think this is the strength of Ramsay.

We talked about his character in the first episode, quite disconnected, doesn't really bother about other people.

He's kind of unconcerned.