Rob, Luisa, and the 80000 Hours team

But you think this introduces some interesting wrinkles and could be gradually undermined over time, such that it doesn't last long term.

How might that happen?

Let's say that we did have a policy that any human has to receive some sort of universal basic income that's sufficient, you know, some amount that we think is enough for them to have a good life.

I guess in this case nobody's working, so they can do kind of whatever they like.

Some people in this situation presumably would like to have really big families.

They might like to have a ton of kids.

But now because those children are not economically productive whatsoever, this is imposing big costs on everyone else who's basically being taxed to support this human universal basic income.

So without going to like more extreme cases where people might really try to milk the system with fetuses or I guess like copying them, becoming uploads and copying themselves or something, you can imagine that this would require some sort of restrictions on, like if we're going to have this universal basic income for humans being sustainable, probably it would have to come with some restrictions on reproduction or limits on what new beings can qualify.

One thing I'm a little bit confused about is what's, what's the moral philosophy, I suppose, underlying this, this whole perspective.

Cause I think, um,

Is it that this is bad because it's going to be bad for human beings?

It's going to lead to an earth that is not a good time for you and me and our kids?

Or is it bad because it's going to lead the rest of the universe to be kind of wasted on something that's useless or harmful or not as good as it could have been?

What's the moral perspective that you're bringing or that your co-authors are bringing?

Yeah.

I think the reason this matters is that, you know, I guess some people, the thing that they want to do is, like, work to ensure that, like, humanity has a great time or that, you know, the Earth is, like, good for themselves and their children, which is going to raise, like, one set of concerns.

Because other people, they want to use their career or the thing they want to lean on is ensuring that the future of civilization or the future of humanity or the future of intelligent life is good.

I guess, do you think that the case for worrying about gradual disempowerment is stronger on one of these than the other?

Or do you think that, like, they tend to go together?

Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's not such a given that they necessarily go together.