Rob Walling

So you can be in charge of this and you can dictate the limits or the constraints that you're willing to put into your business. But I believe that code is usually a certainty. Code is something you can hire someone to do because building that next feature does not have any risk.

So you can be in charge of this and you can dictate the limits or the constraints that you're willing to put into your business. But I believe that code is usually a certainty. Code is something you can hire someone to do because building that next feature does not have any risk.

versus marketing and sales usually have a ton of the risk, as well as product, like deciding what to build, how to take feedback in, how to find product market fit. All those things are very risky. Those are things that founders should be focused on.

versus marketing and sales usually have a ton of the risk, as well as product, like deciding what to build, how to take feedback in, how to find product market fit. All those things are very risky. Those are things that founders should be focused on.

I do know some developer founders who continue to write code well into the millions of ARR and even tens of millions for that matter, but usually inevitably they do step away from it because they realize at a certain point it's just not the best use of their time, even though they love doing it.

I do know some developer founders who continue to write code well into the millions of ARR and even tens of millions for that matter, but usually inevitably they do step away from it because they realize at a certain point it's just not the best use of their time, even though they love doing it.

And to cap this off, Tobey didn't ask this question, but things that I never regretted doing or spending time on and that I never regretted keeping under my purview and not outsourcing were talking to customers constantly,

And to cap this off, Tobey didn't ask this question, but things that I never regretted doing or spending time on and that I never regretted keeping under my purview and not outsourcing were talking to customers constantly,

We're designing the product, and I don't mean visual design, but deciding what to build, how it was going to operate, how are we going to architect this, what's the API going to be like, the real nitty-gritty decisions around building the product. And the third is marketing and sales.

We're designing the product, and I don't mean visual design, but deciding what to build, how it was going to operate, how are we going to architect this, what's the API going to be like, the real nitty-gritty decisions around building the product. And the third is marketing and sales.

I don't know of a seven or eight figure tiny seed founder that has outsourced or delegated their marketing and sales before they hit a few million in ARR. Now, a lot of folks may hire a head of growth or a head of marketing, but it's to take over an effort that's already in play. You've heard me talk a lot on this podcast about zero to one and how hard that is as a marketer or as a salesperson.

I don't know of a seven or eight figure tiny seed founder that has outsourced or delegated their marketing and sales before they hit a few million in ARR. Now, a lot of folks may hire a head of growth or a head of marketing, but it's to take over an effort that's already in play. You've heard me talk a lot on this podcast about zero to one and how hard that is as a marketer or as a salesperson.

And as the founder, I'm a staunch believer that you need to keep that under your own purview. Until you've proven it out and you've built it into a process that can be handed off to someone else. So thanks for that question, Tobey. I hope it was helpful. My next question is from Miguel Sarenas.

And as the founder, I'm a staunch believer that you need to keep that under your own purview. Until you've proven it out and you've built it into a process that can be handed off to someone else. So thanks for that question, Tobey. I hope it was helpful. My next question is from Miguel Sarenas.

And Miguel asks, how do you decide to do it yourself versus hire a growth agency to do paid ads, SEO partnerships, etc.? So this actually piggybacks really well on the last point that I was making earlier. is that in general, there are a few roles in a SaaS marketing department, right? There's marketing strategy, which is deciding, I don't know, what do we try next? What do we do next?

And Miguel asks, how do you decide to do it yourself versus hire a growth agency to do paid ads, SEO partnerships, etc.? So this actually piggybacks really well on the last point that I was making earlier. is that in general, there are a few roles in a SaaS marketing department, right? There's marketing strategy, which is deciding, I don't know, what do we try next? What do we do next?

Where do we put our efforts? So it's very strategic thinking, high level. There is marketing implementation, which is where you're an individual contributor and you are clicking the buttons in the Google AdWords console. You are writing the articles or editing the articles and building links and doing that work of SEO.

Where do we put our efforts? So it's very strategic thinking, high level. There is marketing implementation, which is where you're an individual contributor and you are clicking the buttons in the Google AdWords console. You are writing the articles or editing the articles and building links and doing that work of SEO.

Or in terms of partnerships, you are going out and building the relationships yourself and getting all that done. So those are individual contributor roles or folks who are actually boots on the ground. And then the third role really is project management, which is kind of making sure everything gets done.

Or in terms of partnerships, you are going out and building the relationships yourself and getting all that done. So those are individual contributor roles or folks who are actually boots on the ground. And then the third role really is project management, which is kind of making sure everything gets done.