Rob Walling

There's no ad targeting, say, on Facebook or Instagram where you're targeting by demographics and psychographics. that will work for horizontal.

There's no ad targeting, say, on Facebook or Instagram where you're targeting by demographics and psychographics. that will work for horizontal.

I shouldn't say there isn't any, but it's very, very hard to do versus if you know exactly who your customer is, whether it's this type of business or this role at a company, it is easier to do cold outreach and ads and just all the marketing approaches become easier. And you don't have to be the best marketer in the world. You just have to be the best marketer in your niche.

I shouldn't say there isn't any, but it's very, very hard to do versus if you know exactly who your customer is, whether it's this type of business or this role at a company, it is easier to do cold outreach and ads and just all the marketing approaches become easier. And you don't have to be the best marketer in the world. You just have to be the best marketer in your niche.

And that's the difference that we see. And so I'm not going to go through exact numbers here. Obviously, we don't give out our performance numbers in public. But in general, the trend is that we do see vertical and orthogonal SaaS companies not only growing faster, they tend to have lower churn. Honestly, if they're doing well in these spaces, they're a net negative churn.

And that's the difference that we see. And so I'm not going to go through exact numbers here. Obviously, we don't give out our performance numbers in public. But in general, the trend is that we do see vertical and orthogonal SaaS companies not only growing faster, they tend to have lower churn. Honestly, if they're doing well in these spaces, they're a net negative churn.

And it's still early, but it does seem like the exit multiples are higher because there is more appetite from acquirers, from strategics and private equity to go after these niche plays, presumably because they also know their numbers, they know how hard it is to market, and they know what net negative churn can do for a business.

And it's still early, but it does seem like the exit multiples are higher because there is more appetite from acquirers, from strategics and private equity to go after these niche plays, presumably because they also know their numbers, they know how hard it is to market, and they know what net negative churn can do for a business.

And so with all that in mind, the metrics are better, blah, blah, blah. So it's still early. And here's the thing. I know someone on the internet is going to come and post, but that's not true across all 10,000 SaaS companies. Look, my one counterexample is going to try to disprove Rob. I'm not trying to state a physical law like gravity in this podcast.

And so with all that in mind, the metrics are better, blah, blah, blah. So it's still early. And here's the thing. I know someone on the internet is going to come and post, but that's not true across all 10,000 SaaS companies. Look, my one counterexample is going to try to disprove Rob. I'm not trying to state a physical law like gravity in this podcast.

What I'm doing is I'm looking at trends across things that we are seeing. These are not statements of fact. I'm not saying that every horizontal product TinySeed has is not great. There's nothing like that. It is trends, it's numbers, it's bell curves. So yes, you can do your post and say, I'm horizontal and look, I have net negative turn. Great.

What I'm doing is I'm looking at trends across things that we are seeing. These are not statements of fact. I'm not saying that every horizontal product TinySeed has is not great. There's nothing like that. It is trends, it's numbers, it's bell curves. So yes, you can do your post and say, I'm horizontal and look, I have net negative turn. Great.

I ran a relatively horizontal play called drip and that had net negative turn too. So that was a great business. So I'm not saying don't start horizontal either. I'm just telling you vertical and orthogonal. There's some, some real advantages to doing that. Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business.

I ran a relatively horizontal play called drip and that had net negative turn too. So that was a great business. So I'm not saying don't start horizontal either. I'm just telling you vertical and orthogonal. There's some, some real advantages to doing that. Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business.

But if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today's sponsor, Lemon.io. For years, they've been helping our audience find high-quality global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Don't just take my word for it.

But if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today's sponsor, Lemon.io. For years, they've been helping our audience find high-quality global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Don't just take my word for it.

Listener Dylan Pierce had this to say about working with Lemon.io. The machine learning engineer they helped me hire was very professional and even learned a new tech stack to set up an environment to train and deploy machine learning models. He documented his work clearly so I could train it in the future with additional data. I'm super happy with the results.

Listener Dylan Pierce had this to say about working with Lemon.io. The machine learning engineer they helped me hire was very professional and even learned a new tech stack to set up an environment to train and deploy machine learning models. He documented his work clearly so I could train it in the future with additional data. I'm super happy with the results.

And longtime listener Chaz Yoon hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire, quote, definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations. Chaz said he'd definitely use Lemon.io again when he's looking for a senior level engineer.

And longtime listener Chaz Yoon hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire, quote, definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations. Chaz said he'd definitely use Lemon.io again when he's looking for a senior level engineer.