Robert Peston

What you have to do is create a regulatory framework in which these pensions feel empowered to take more risk.

At the moment, the regulatory framework broadly discourages all that.

Minimal commitments.

So I'm really worried about...

you know, the government's approach to investing in these younger businesses.

I mean, we had actually, I thought, a very impressive young minister on the podcast, Kanishka Narayan, who is the sort of

tech science minister to kyle i have no doubt is really committed he wants to be you know the secretary of state who creates the conditions in which we do get in the uk a trillion pound or trillion dollar business well a million miles around a trillion dollar business at the moment but that he really wants to create that so he said they talk the talk right but then look at sovereign ai

So it has put money into two businesses, ineffable and isomorphic.

Look, it may be that the taxpayer ends up making a fortune out of these investments, isomorphic and ineffable.

And if it does, great.

But that is not the whole thing that governments should be doing.

What they should be doing is...

Making a judgment about business that may be fresh out of university, is it going to get the finance at the right price to take it to the next stage?

I'd like to see government taking real risk.

The problem is the treasury is always risk averse.

Nick, there's so much we need to talk about, but we're just going to go to a quick break.

Just had a conversation with Mariana Mazzucato, who I'm sure you'll have come across, the influential economist.

She thinks the other thing that we ought to be doing more is recognizing when we create within our universities, publicly funded, or within our research institutions, many of them publicly funded, incredible IP with...

commercial, huge commercial potential and making sure that some of that value just automatically is owned by all of us and it would have to be via the state.

So one of the things that is quite, I don't know how much of, you know, essentially, you know,