Robert Siegel

And I'm wondering what it is, E.J., that we learn about decision-making in the second Trump administration from this pretty painful story to read.

He was okay with the destruction of Iranian industrial and military capacity, but not for a regime change.

Well, we'll just add one more fact about these discussions.

In the big meetings, not present was Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, who you'd think would have some important role to play at this particular- She was too busy examining votes down in Georgia.

I want to move us on to something just a little different.

And that was the holiday season twist to the rhetoric surrounding the Iran war.

Defense Secretary Hegseth, who had already urged Americans to pray for victory in the name of Jesus Christ, then likened the rescue of a downed American airman in Iran to the resurrection.

Donald Trump claimed divine support for the war.

Carlos, I mean, I can't remember a discussion of U.S.

military action involving quite so much religion.

On that note, I'm going to bring us to our – it's become our traditional conclusion of these conversations, Carlos, which is after we talk about politics and war, we talk about joy in some way in which joy was brought into our lives recently.

And I'll start with E.J.,

Well, my joy recently, my greatest joy recently was much like EJ's, which was Big Family Seder in New York City.

for Passover.

And I was especially moved this year by the moment where one takes a drop of wine out of one's glass, one for each of the plagues as they are recited.

And the reason for doing that, the rabbis say, is that even though the 10 plagues were what permitted the Hebrews to free themselves from slavery, they caused great pain to other people.

And our joy is diminished by something which causes pain even to the soldiers of one's enemy.

And it struck me as an important moment of, as you would say, E.J.

conscience and humility at that point.

Thank you, Robert.