Robin Givhan

You've had this incredible luxury of being able to move through a world in which your identity is sort of the de facto norm.

It's the identity against which everything else is measured or defined.

And if that's the case, I say, lucky you,

But I don't think that that means that we should sort of neglect to consider how other people have had to essentially fight to have their identity understood.

Wow, that's, thank you, Stacey, for that really mouth, like, giant question.

I mean, I will start by sort of focusing on like a very sort of traditional fashion element, right?

Which is the cover, the cover shot, right?

Of any magazine or who gets to open a fashion show or close a fashion show on the runway.

I mean, these are sort of the high points for a model, if you will, in their career.

And, you know, for a long time, the industry has grappled with, continues to grapple with diversity within the fashion industry and within the ranks of models.

And a lot of times, you know, I think people sort of wonder, well, you know, like, what's the big deal about, like, which industry?

teenager gets to be on the cover of a magazine or, you know, who cares who's closing a fashion show.

But I always sort of remind people that, you know, fashion is this way that we communicate with

our understanding of beauty, our understanding of gender, our understanding of what sort of femininity means or what masculinity means.

And in many ways, fashion teaches us the kind of people who have value and the kind of people who are worth celebrating and worth elevating.

and worth aspiring to be like or, you know, emulating.

And those are really powerful lessons.

And, you know, and fashion does it in ways that are quite, that sometimes are quite obvious and sometimes are quite sneaky.

And I think it's important that we understand that fashion is kind of sneaking in these

really potent messages that have a real ripple effect throughout the culture.