Roger Avary

Like, because the movie is old and because maybe they didn't have the money to do it, like, super clean or perfect.

Like, because the movie is old and because maybe they didn't have the money to do it, like, super clean or perfect.

That movie in particular is actually a tough one to, because it's, is this Stephen? Yeah.

That movie in particular is actually a tough one to, because it's, is this Stephen? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I know how hard it is to do some of the things that they're doing. This is like it's pre-computer graphics. They have a limited budget. But their vision is so big. And you're watching it. You're like, oh, my God. This is if you just like if you try not to judge it on what a movie looks like today.

And I know how hard it is to do some of the things that they're doing. This is like it's pre-computer graphics. They have a limited budget. But their vision is so big. And you're watching it. You're like, oh, my God. This is if you just like if you try not to judge it on what a movie looks like today.

It's literally a shelf space issue.

It's literally a shelf space issue.

Yeah. And it's a crazy movie also.

Yeah. And it's a crazy movie also.

It's like you're inside of some sort of crazy Mexican's head making a horror movie. It's fantastic.

It's like you're inside of some sort of crazy Mexican's head making a horror movie. It's fantastic.

Yeah. Although the...

Yeah. Although the...

best thing about the horror genre and science fiction is that they're the best vehicles to kind of study culture and sociological issues because you have that abstraction layer that you know makes people think oh i'm just watching a science fiction film or i'm just watching a horror movie right like you watch dawn of the dead and yeah you're watching a movie about zombies in a shopping mall or are you watching a movie about the vanishing middle class being drawn to the consumer temple because it's what they remembered from their lives that was an important place to them

best thing about the horror genre and science fiction is that they're the best vehicles to kind of study culture and sociological issues because you have that abstraction layer that you know makes people think oh i'm just watching a science fiction film or i'm just watching a horror movie right like you watch dawn of the dead and yeah you're watching a movie about zombies in a shopping mall or are you watching a movie about the vanishing middle class being drawn to the consumer temple because it's what they remembered from their lives that was an important place to them

I'm actually quoting my liner notes that I wrote for the DVD way back when.

I'm actually quoting my liner notes that I wrote for the DVD way back when.

It's a composite Ian's would be like I want to be the next Eddie Murphy Yeah, it was a composite. It was a composite. I have like a kind of a top three filmmaker, you know When you're a young filmmaker and when you're a young child you look to your parents to learn how to behave and You know, you're a child and you look to them and you're like, they teach you how to be.

It's a composite Ian's would be like I want to be the next Eddie Murphy Yeah, it was a composite. It was a composite. I have like a kind of a top three filmmaker, you know When you're a young filmmaker and when you're a young child you look to your parents to learn how to behave and You know, you're a child and you look to them and you're like, they teach you how to be.

And so at the beginning of your life, you're copying your parents. And because that's who you love and that's what you're copying. When you're a young filmmaker. very frequently you kind of copy your parents, your cinematic parents.

And so at the beginning of your life, you're copying your parents. And because that's who you love and that's what you're copying. When you're a young filmmaker. very frequently you kind of copy your parents, your cinematic parents.

And, you know, so in my case, you know, in many filmmakers, like for instance, Stanley Kubrick, who is one of my favorite filmmakers, who I'm always thinking about his zero point perspective, his reverse tracking shots. I just love the intention of his shots and how he assembles his movies. I like everything about his work. I do too. Kubrick. Huge fan.

And, you know, so in my case, you know, in many filmmakers, like for instance, Stanley Kubrick, who is one of my favorite filmmakers, who I'm always thinking about his zero point perspective, his reverse tracking shots. I just love the intention of his shots and how he assembles his movies. I like everything about his work. I do too. Kubrick. Huge fan.

If you love Fritz Lang, you can see that, oh, Kubrick was, that's how he felt about Fritz Lang. Like when I watch M, I can see the Kubrick shots. Is Fritz Lang Metropolis? Yeah, he did Metropolis. He did, I mean, some of the greatest. Metropolis is wild.

If you love Fritz Lang, you can see that, oh, Kubrick was, that's how he felt about Fritz Lang. Like when I watch M, I can see the Kubrick shots. Is Fritz Lang Metropolis? Yeah, he did Metropolis. He did, I mean, some of the greatest. Metropolis is wild.

Metropolis is a super, super powerful and kind of important movie that's exactly talking about everything that's going on today that people should see. The movie I was thinking about was M, which is his movie with Peter Lorre about the pedophile. And the movie's made just before the Nazis took power.

Metropolis is a super, super powerful and kind of important movie that's exactly talking about everything that's going on today that people should see. The movie I was thinking about was M, which is his movie with Peter Lorre about the pedophile. And the movie's made just before the Nazis took power.

And so he's making a movie that's really about kind of the rise of...

And so he's making a movie that's really about kind of the rise of...

the rise of Hitlerian fascism in Europe but he's doing it through this movie about a pedophile and it's it's Peter and Peter Lorre is fantastic and it's actually his first sound movie like Fritz Lang hadn't made a sound movie and so every single shot in the film is based on sound so he'll have shadows talking and the backs of people's heads talking or even the device of the movie is Peter Lorre whistling Peter Giant you know

the rise of Hitlerian fascism in Europe but he's doing it through this movie about a pedophile and it's it's Peter and Peter Lorre is fantastic and it's actually his first sound movie like Fritz Lang hadn't made a sound movie and so every single shot in the film is based on sound so he'll have shadows talking and the backs of people's heads talking or even the device of the movie is Peter Lorre whistling Peter Giant you know

That becomes like the device by which they find the killer. So the whole movie is about sound. So as a young filmmaker, if you want to learn how to use sound in a movie, that's the movie to see. Because every single shot, like it used to be, you would show an empty frame and it would just be a shot of nothing. But now Fritz Lang is able to juxtapose like a woman has lost her daughter.

That becomes like the device by which they find the killer. So the whole movie is about sound. So as a young filmmaker, if you want to learn how to use sound in a movie, that's the movie to see. Because every single shot, like it used to be, you would show an empty frame and it would just be a shot of nothing. But now Fritz Lang is able to juxtapose like a woman has lost her daughter.

She's calling for her daughter. And so she's looking for her daughter and she's looking for her. Elsa! Elsa! elsa and they cut to an empty shot of a stairwell and you hear her elsa and they cut to like you know an empty playground elsa and then you see the balloon that she was carrying trapped in something like whipping in the wind elsa and it's super Super intense.

She's calling for her daughter. And so she's looking for her daughter and she's looking for her. Elsa! Elsa! elsa and they cut to an empty shot of a stairwell and you hear her elsa and they cut to like you know an empty playground elsa and then you see the balloon that she was carrying trapped in something like whipping in the wind elsa and it's super Super intense.

But all he's doing is he's using sound juxtaposed with images, which he couldn't do before. Crazy that he just called it M. Yeah, M for murderer. And this is an amazing, amazing movie. So Kubrick... See, that's a Kubrickian shot. This is where he's... Elsa! Or Elsie? Elsa! I seem to remember more Elsies.

But all he's doing is he's using sound juxtaposed with images, which he couldn't do before. Crazy that he just called it M. Yeah, M for murderer. And this is an amazing, amazing movie. So Kubrick... See, that's a Kubrickian shot. This is where he's... Elsa! Or Elsie? Elsa! I seem to remember more Elsies.

And naturally, you know, I'm a writer and filmmaker. And so I, of course, want to talk to them about stuff. And they immediately started volunteering. Oh, yeah, we've learned all these different ways when I became an operator, blah, blah, blah. I learned how to kill people without. And I was just making a list now of the 10 ways to kill someone without leaving a trace. I was like, well.

And naturally, you know, I'm a writer and filmmaker. And so I, of course, want to talk to them about stuff. And they immediately started volunteering. Oh, yeah, we've learned all these different ways when I became an operator, blah, blah, blah. I learned how to kill people without. And I was just making a list now of the 10 ways to kill someone without leaving a trace. I was like, well.

It's okay. So Kubrick had his forefathers who he used to watch and that he used to look to. And so those would be like my grandparents in a way. And so there's this lineage of cinematic grammar and vernacular that gets carried on from filmmaker to filmmaker. And eventually, after you've made enough films, you start walking on your own. You start... coming up with new ideas.

It's okay. So Kubrick had his forefathers who he used to watch and that he used to look to. And so those would be like my grandparents in a way. And so there's this lineage of cinematic grammar and vernacular that gets carried on from filmmaker to filmmaker. And eventually, after you've made enough films, you start walking on your own. You start... coming up with new ideas.

But for me, it was Stanley Kubrick, John Borman. He's the guy who directed Excalibur and Hope and Glory and Point Blank and Hell in the Pacific. I mean, a number of movies. I don't think Quentin's such a big fan of John Borman. Some of his films. I think you're a fan of his writing more than you are his films.

But for me, it was Stanley Kubrick, John Borman. He's the guy who directed Excalibur and Hope and Glory and Point Blank and Hell in the Pacific. I mean, a number of movies. I don't think Quentin's such a big fan of John Borman. Some of his films. I think you're a fan of his writing more than you are his films.

Yeah. And John Borman and then Roman Polanski. I think those three guys for me and their work, not the guys, but mostly their work, Like I am a composite. If you watch my movies, I'm a composite of those guys and other people as well. And those are the filmmakers are important to me. Those were my parents, so to speak.

Yeah. And John Borman and then Roman Polanski. I think those three guys for me and their work, not the guys, but mostly their work, Like I am a composite. If you watch my movies, I'm a composite of those guys and other people as well. And those are the filmmakers are important to me. Those were my parents, so to speak.

Nothing wrong with that. No, yeah, he's a weird guy, but he was also, I think, thinking three steps ahead of everybody at any kind of given moment. I mean... I mean, to be honest, I was just thinking, I just pulled my script from Eyes Wide Shut.

Nothing wrong with that. No, yeah, he's a weird guy, but he was also, I think, thinking three steps ahead of everybody at any kind of given moment. I mean... I mean, to be honest, I was just thinking, I just pulled my script from Eyes Wide Shut.

I had a script that was from set and I was reading it over the weekend and I saw that it has this, I mean, I've known this for a long time, but I started really thinking about it over the weekend. It's missing a narration. It's missing a third person narration that was originally in the movie. That's because the movie was recut and changed after his death. And they will deny it.

I had a script that was from set and I was reading it over the weekend and I saw that it has this, I mean, I've known this for a long time, but I started really thinking about it over the weekend. It's missing a narration. It's missing a third person narration that was originally in the movie. That's because the movie was recut and changed after his death. And they will deny it.

But as a student of Kubrick, I'm watching the movie and I'm like, well, Kubrick wouldn't do that. Kubrick wouldn't do that either. Kubrick would have trimmed this scene. I didn't know they recut it after his death.

But as a student of Kubrick, I'm watching the movie and I'm like, well, Kubrick wouldn't do that. Kubrick wouldn't do that either. Kubrick would have trimmed this scene. I didn't know they recut it after his death.

Well, that's the party line. That's the party line. But I think that they changed the notes, the close-ups, the inserts of the notes. I think those are changed. It's missing a narration. It's definitely missing a narration. You know, a third-person narration. Like that scene where he sees the prostitute who's died. He's at the morgue and he's looking at her and he's like leaning over her.

Well, that's the party line. That's the party line. But I think that they changed the notes, the close-ups, the inserts of the notes. I think those are changed. It's missing a narration. It's definitely missing a narration. You know, a third-person narration. Like that scene where he sees the prostitute who's died. He's at the morgue and he's looking at her and he's like leaning over her.

It's a bed for narration. There's this whole thing. What they do instead, because they couldn't say that Kubrick finished the movie because Because they hadn't done the recording of the narrator yet. And so maybe they just kind of kludged it together. Except there's an entire thread that's kind of been... Squashed. Squashed in that film.

It's a bed for narration. There's this whole thing. What they do instead, because they couldn't say that Kubrick finished the movie because Because they hadn't done the recording of the narrator yet. And so maybe they just kind of kludged it together. Except there's an entire thread that's kind of been... Squashed. Squashed in that film.

And that's the two men that are throughout the movie that are constantly in the background of the film who eventually in the final shots of the film, you see like Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in that final scene in the toy store when she's looking at the Rosemary's baby bassinet, which is totally Kubrick saying something.

And that's the two men that are throughout the movie that are constantly in the background of the film who eventually in the final shots of the film, you see like Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in that final scene in the toy store when she's looking at the Rosemary's baby bassinet, which is totally Kubrick saying something.

And they never take their eyes off their daughter until the moment they take their eyes off. And the final line of the movie is coming up. You see those two guys walking off with the daughter. They're taking her away. They've given their daughter to the pedo cult. That's what's happened at the end of the movie. And there's an incident where when they first screened the movie in England.

And they never take their eyes off their daughter until the moment they take their eyes off. And the final line of the movie is coming up. You see those two guys walking off with the daughter. They're taking her away. They've given their daughter to the pedo cult. That's what's happened at the end of the movie. And there's an incident where when they first screened the movie in England.

You constantly have to grow your inventory.

You constantly have to grow your inventory.

People who were outside apparent. This is all secondhand, by the way. There are people who are outside of the theater who could hear inside of the theater. Kubrick yelling at all the executives and saying, it's my movie. You can't cut it. I can't fucking cut my film. Big argument going on. Then he dies like four days later. So somebody went in and finished the movie.

People who were outside apparent. This is all secondhand, by the way. There are people who are outside of the theater who could hear inside of the theater. Kubrick yelling at all the executives and saying, it's my movie. You can't cut it. I can't fucking cut my film. Big argument going on. Then he dies like four days later. So somebody went in and finished the movie.

But I think when they finished the movie, they hid the film. The movie got changed into something else. And I would love to finish that film. I like, I'm like. Have you ever made an attempt? I've thought about it. And reading the script over the weekend, I started seriously thinking about it. Well, somebody should recut this. Or somebody should.

But I think when they finished the movie, they hid the film. The movie got changed into something else. And I would love to finish that film. I like, I'm like. Have you ever made an attempt? I've thought about it. And reading the script over the weekend, I started seriously thinking about it. Well, somebody should recut this. Or somebody should.

So it would just be a matter of recutting it with narration? Well, yes and no. There's obviously missing. There would be missing footage now. Things have been removed. And is that accessible? Yeah. Not unless you crack it open and there's no way anybody would. Well, here's the thing. They would never. But hold on.

So it would just be a matter of recutting it with narration? Well, yes and no. There's obviously missing. There would be missing footage now. Things have been removed. And is that accessible? Yeah. Not unless you crack it open and there's no way anybody would. Well, here's the thing. They would never. But hold on.

Well, I know. You're one step ahead of me. I'm one step ahead of you. I've actually been experimenting a lot with AI. The newer versions are pretty stunning.

Well, I know. You're one step ahead of me. I'm one step ahead of you. I've actually been experimenting a lot with AI. The newer versions are pretty stunning.

I'm literally, as I'm working on things, I'll be talking to the guys and, you know, I'll be saying, well, it'd be nice to be able to move the camera. Okay, we got that tool on Tuesday. We're going to give that to you. And so it's like literally whatever you think you can't do, ask us because we probably will be able to do it in a couple of days.

I'm literally, as I'm working on things, I'll be talking to the guys and, you know, I'll be saying, well, it'd be nice to be able to move the camera. Okay, we got that tool on Tuesday. We're going to give that to you. And so it's like literally whatever you think you can't do, ask us because we probably will be able to do it in a couple of days.

And then there was another problem when companies that were massively funded like Blockbuster came onto the scene. They would go in and they would kind of do this sort of gray market purchasing where they would buy, you know, 50 diehards. And a mom and pop star can't afford to buy more than one or two diehards or three maybe to satisfy your clientele.

And then there was another problem when companies that were massively funded like Blockbuster came onto the scene. They would go in and they would kind of do this sort of gray market purchasing where they would buy, you know, 50 diehards. And a mom and pop star can't afford to buy more than one or two diehards or three maybe to satisfy your clientele.

And so it's advancing so fast and so rapidly that I, without telling you, Quentin, I made a little claymation version of you. And I...

And so it's advancing so fast and so rapidly that I, without telling you, Quentin, I made a little claymation version of you. And I...

seen of it lately it was the first time I've been kind of ignoring AI and like I know what it is it's like form completion with visuals and I get it I understand what it is and we'll see we'll see but I like tactile I like tactile and I do but I worked on Beowulf I made Beowulf with Robert Zemeckis and like that was a big you know video

seen of it lately it was the first time I've been kind of ignoring AI and like I know what it is it's like form completion with visuals and I get it I understand what it is and we'll see we'll see but I like tactile I like tactile and I do but I worked on Beowulf I made Beowulf with Robert Zemeckis and like that was a big you know video

puppet CGI thing my original movie motion capture my original plan for that movie because I was going to direct it myself was to make it like you know in Iceland you know under 10 million dollars you know just really dirty I wanted it to be like you know like an early Terry Gilliam film like Jabberwocky that was actually the one Neil and I were thinking about when Neil Gaiman when my co-writer on that film

puppet CGI thing my original movie motion capture my original plan for that movie because I was going to direct it myself was to make it like you know in Iceland you know under 10 million dollars you know just really dirty I wanted it to be like you know like an early Terry Gilliam film like Jabberwocky that was actually the one Neil and I were thinking about when Neil Gaiman when my co-writer on that film

And the movie ended up getting made much bigger. Suddenly it was like whatever budget I had was probably our craft service budget. It's nothing like making a $100 million movie. It's like sushi every day, champagne, fly the plane to England, whatever you want. It's crazy, but that was definitely not the movie I had planned on making. However...

And the movie ended up getting made much bigger. Suddenly it was like whatever budget I had was probably our craft service budget. It's nothing like making a $100 million movie. It's like sushi every day, champagne, fly the plane to England, whatever you want. It's crazy, but that was definitely not the movie I had planned on making. However...

Um, when we made it like, and it turned into this big performance capture thing, it was fun, like working with Zemeckis and, and he's such a, like an excitable, like creative genius. Like he's, and even before you were able to do stuff like what he was doing in that film, he, He was like constantly taking, you know, like when he made contact, oh, we'll take that eyebrow off of Jodie Foster.

Um, when we made it like, and it turned into this big performance capture thing, it was fun, like working with Zemeckis and, and he's such a, like an excitable, like creative genius. Like he's, and even before you were able to do stuff like what he was doing in that film, he, He was like constantly taking, you know, like when he made contact, oh, we'll take that eyebrow off of Jodie Foster.

And I like that eyebrow thing she does. And so put that on this take. And so he was like messing with her face and doing all sorts of performance stuff. And. Even when you go back to his earliest film, I want to hold your hand. I want to hold your hand is almost a visual trick. You know, having the Beatles there but not be there. Not using computer graphics.

And I like that eyebrow thing she does. And so put that on this take. And so he was like messing with her face and doing all sorts of performance stuff. And. Even when you go back to his earliest film, I want to hold your hand. I want to hold your hand is almost a visual trick. You know, having the Beatles there but not be there. Not using computer graphics.

I think he's just a really super inventive guy. And it was so much fun making the movie with him because we were inventing technologies. That was 2010 that I think the movie came out.

I think he's just a really super inventive guy. And it was so much fun making the movie with him because we were inventing technologies. That was 2010 that I think the movie came out.

It looks probably like a video game pre-cut scene at this point. That's what's crazy, right? I've thought about taking Beowulf, importing it into my system, and then just painting over it. Let's fucking go, Roger.

It looks probably like a video game pre-cut scene at this point. That's what's crazy, right? I've thought about taking Beowulf, importing it into my system, and then just painting over it. Let's fucking go, Roger.

Which, by the way, you can do easily.

Which, by the way, you can do easily.

Easily.

Easily.

Yeah, I mean, it looks like a video game cut scene at this point.

Yeah, I mean, it looks like a video game cut scene at this point.

I mean, the difference is that this was actual, like, performances. And so we could take, you know, Ray Winstone and have him... Ray Winstone doesn't look like that. He looks a little heftier. And, uh...

I mean, the difference is that this was actual, like, performances. And so we could take, you know, Ray Winstone and have him... Ray Winstone doesn't look like that. He looks a little heftier. And, uh...

Cuts my arm off. Cut my own arm off. It's funny because our original script was much more modest than this, but then Zemeckis was like, okay, boys, it costs a million dollars a minute. Do whatever you want.

Cuts my arm off. Cut my own arm off. It's funny because our original script was much more modest than this, but then Zemeckis was like, okay, boys, it costs a million dollars a minute. Do whatever you want.

Oh, no. This movie is kind of a... I mean, it's a little... It's an interesting experience, what happened to me on this film, if you don't mind. Yeah, go ahead. So I was going to make this movie myself. I had set it up initially at Image Movers with Zemeckis Producing, and then it fell out, and the rights kind of reverted back to me.

Oh, no. This movie is kind of a... I mean, it's a little... It's an interesting experience, what happened to me on this film, if you don't mind. Yeah, go ahead. So I was going to make this movie myself. I had set it up initially at Image Movers with Zemeckis Producing, and then it fell out, and the rights kind of reverted back to me.

I had to cover the turnaround on it, but the rights reverted back to me, and I was going to go make the movie myself. for nothing and I was trying to set it up and it was really, I was broke at the time and I was not gonna make money and I had to cover the turnaround expenses myself on the film, which were considerable.

I had to cover the turnaround on it, but the rights reverted back to me, and I was going to go make the movie myself. for nothing and I was trying to set it up and it was really, I was broke at the time and I was not gonna make money and I had to cover the turnaround expenses myself on the film, which were considerable.

But I wanted to make the movie really bad and I was working on Silent Hill, this other movie I wrote, and I suddenly started getting calls. And it was like the producer of Polar Express, this guy Steve Bing, wanted to buy the script. He's like, I want to buy it for Zemeckis. And I said, ah, too little, too late. I'm making it now. And I kept saying no.

But I wanted to make the movie really bad and I was working on Silent Hill, this other movie I wrote, and I suddenly started getting calls. And it was like the producer of Polar Express, this guy Steve Bing, wanted to buy the script. He's like, I want to buy it for Zemeckis. And I said, ah, too little, too late. I'm making it now. And I kept saying no.

Yeah, Top Gun.

Yeah, Top Gun.

And every, and I was working on this film in Canada and I'm just trying to finish it. And every hour I'm getting a call from agents at CA and they're like.

And every, and I was working on this film in Canada and I'm just trying to finish it. And every hour I'm getting a call from agents at CA and they're like.

Yeah, it was. Actually, yeah, it was Jack. How did you know it was Jack? Did I tell you that?

Yeah, it was. Actually, yeah, it was Jack. How did you know it was Jack? Did I tell you that?

And so I was getting a call.

And so I was getting a call.

Yeah, he is a guy who gets shit done. Well, I was like, you know, no, no, no. And, you know, no, I won't. I'm doing it myself. No, no. And Steve Bing – and I said, if another agent calls me, I'm firing the agency. And they're like, will you at least meet with the producer? And so I went ahead and I meet with them.

Yeah, he is a guy who gets shit done. Well, I was like, you know, no, no, no. And, you know, no, I won't. I'm doing it myself. No, no. And Steve Bing – and I said, if another agent calls me, I'm firing the agency. And they're like, will you at least meet with the producer? And so I went ahead and I meet with them.

And he says, listen, if I don't make this film with Zemeckis, with Bob, I'm going to miss the moment. I'm going to lose the movie. It's going to be over. Just – what's your price? Just tell me. What's your price? And I said, I don't have a price. I don't work like that. He said, listen, everybody's got a price. I said, well – I may have one, but I'm not going to tell you.

And he says, listen, if I don't make this film with Zemeckis, with Bob, I'm going to miss the moment. I'm going to lose the movie. It's going to be over. Just – what's your price? Just tell me. What's your price? And I said, I don't have a price. I don't work like that. He said, listen, everybody's got a price. I said, well – I may have one, but I'm not going to tell you.

And he's like, look, why don't you just tell me, just discourage me. So I said, okay, you want me to discourage you? And so I started like making shit up. I need this. I want that. I want this. I want this. I tried to come up with how much money had anybody ever made on a script and let's add some money to that. I went over the top. He's,

And he's like, look, why don't you just tell me, just discourage me. So I said, okay, you want me to discourage you? And so I started like making shit up. I need this. I want that. I want this. I want this. I tried to come up with how much money had anybody ever made on a script and let's add some money to that. I went over the top. He's,

Because everyone wants to see it. And at some point, it's going to be out. And it's going to be checked out.

Because everyone wants to see it. And at some point, it's going to be out. And it's going to be checked out.

Well, Roger, that is – and I had grown a beard to make the movie and, like, grew my hair long like a Viking to learn about, you know, why Vikings had beards, et cetera, all that kind of stuff. I'm making the movie. I'm a Viking. He said, well, Roger, that is really discouraging, but we have a deal. And I was like, well – I start driving home and I started like I'd never done anything.

Well, Roger, that is – and I had grown a beard to make the movie and, like, grew my hair long like a Viking to learn about, you know, why Vikings had beards, et cetera, all that kind of stuff. I'm making the movie. I'm a Viking. He said, well, Roger, that is really discouraging, but we have a deal. And I was like, well – I start driving home and I started like I'd never done anything.

I'd never done something for money before. I'd always done it because I for passion. And then the money came. And this is the first time in my life that I'd ever made a choice based on money, this titanic amount of money. And I was understand broke. And I went home and I cried. And then the check came and nothing dries tears like money.

I'd never done something for money before. I'd always done it because I for passion. And then the money came. And this is the first time in my life that I'd ever made a choice based on money, this titanic amount of money. And I was understand broke. And I went home and I cried. And then the check came and nothing dries tears like money.

And then Zemeckis invited me into the process, which was really great of him. He really wanted me and Neil to be at his side and collaborate with him. And it was a fabulous experience. But to be honest, I was like, who am I now? What does it all mean? I just gave away something I'd wanted to do my entire life. I've always been chasing this John Borman film Excalibur.

And then Zemeckis invited me into the process, which was really great of him. He really wanted me and Neil to be at his side and collaborate with him. And it was a fabulous experience. But to be honest, I was like, who am I now? What does it all mean? I just gave away something I'd wanted to do my entire life. I've always been chasing this John Borman film Excalibur.

I think it's one of the most beautiful movies ever made about the Arthurian legends. And and if you watch Beowulf and Excalibur, they're very similar, actually, thematically. And so I was like, who am I now? What does it all mean? You know what? I don't even care. I don't even know if I want to make a movie anymore. You know, like, what do I have to tell now, now that I've just completely sold out?

I think it's one of the most beautiful movies ever made about the Arthurian legends. And and if you watch Beowulf and Excalibur, they're very similar, actually, thematically. And so I was like, who am I now? What does it all mean? You know what? I don't even care. I don't even know if I want to make a movie anymore. You know, like, what do I have to tell now, now that I've just completely sold out?

and then I was at a dinner and, uh, um, big dinner and I was driving home that night. And, um, I was giving, uh, somebody who was at the dinner, a lift. My wife was in the backseat of the car and we were, um, I told my daughter I was going to be home by midnight. We lived in Ojai and it was dark. And, um, I, uh, So I was speeding. I have a lead foot. And I was speeding to get there.

and then I was at a dinner and, uh, um, big dinner and I was driving home that night. And, um, I was giving, uh, somebody who was at the dinner, a lift. My wife was in the backseat of the car and we were, um, I told my daughter I was going to be home by midnight. We lived in Ojai and it was dark. And, um, I, uh, So I was speeding. I have a lead foot. And I was speeding to get there.

Without getting into the details of what happened, I lost control of the car. There was another vehicle, but they fled the scene. I lost control of the vehicle. I think my tire blew, but I was going into a ditch. And I knew I was going into this deep ditch.

Without getting into the details of what happened, I lost control of the car. There was another vehicle, but they fled the scene. I lost control of the vehicle. I think my tire blew, but I was going into a ditch. And I knew I was going into this deep ditch.

ditch because it was right near my house full of rocks and stuff I knew if I go in there will die and so I turned into the thing and then I turned away from it to try to the car spun out and I ended up on the other side of the street where I knew there was like a cow pasture and I was like well what's the worst thing that can happen there well it was pretty bad there was a telephone pole and I hit the telephone pole and

ditch because it was right near my house full of rocks and stuff I knew if I go in there will die and so I turned into the thing and then I turned away from it to try to the car spun out and I ended up on the other side of the street where I knew there was like a cow pasture and I was like well what's the worst thing that can happen there well it was pretty bad there was a telephone pole and I hit the telephone pole and

My passenger took the impact, and my wife was thrown from the car. When I came to, all I could hear was the horn. My hearing's gone. I have glass in my mouth, and I'm injured as well. I climb out of the car, and it's dark. It's really dark. But somebody's already arrived, the XDA from Ventura County, who did all the drunk driving laws and put those on the books.

My passenger took the impact, and my wife was thrown from the car. When I came to, all I could hear was the horn. My hearing's gone. I have glass in my mouth, and I'm injured as well. I climb out of the car, and it's dark. It's really dark. But somebody's already arrived, the XDA from Ventura County, who did all the drunk driving laws and put those on the books.

And he was the first person on the scene. I was right near the fire department. They showed up shortly afterwards. But when I jumped out of the car, I came running around to see what happened. And I saw my wife on the asphalt. She'd been thrown from the vehicle. And I threw myself onto my knees on the pavement. And I found myself in that moment

And he was the first person on the scene. I was right near the fire department. They showed up shortly afterwards. But when I jumped out of the car, I came running around to see what happened. And I saw my wife on the asphalt. She'd been thrown from the vehicle. And I threw myself onto my knees on the pavement. And I found myself in that moment

It largely fell on us because we were a smaller store and we had a Blockbuster just a block away, basically.

It largely fell on us because we were a smaller store and we had a Blockbuster just a block away, basically.

Asking for the one thing that mattered, which was just life. She looked dead. And I just, in that moment, I dug down. I begged her to come back to life. And I just said, I will give anything for life. Just in any form, I'll take it. And in that moment, she came back to life. It was like the life came back into her. Okay, it was a completely fucked up scene.

Asking for the one thing that mattered, which was just life. She looked dead. And I just, in that moment, I dug down. I begged her to come back to life. And I just said, I will give anything for life. Just in any form, I'll take it. And in that moment, she came back to life. It was like the life came back into her. Okay, it was a completely fucked up scene.

My other passenger is dying in the car or dead. The police are suddenly there. And next thing I know, I'm in jail. And suddenly you're like, Suddenly I found myself in jail. I found myself guilty of manslaughter and something that is absolutely irreversible happening, which is, you know, someone lost their life at my hand.

My other passenger is dying in the car or dead. The police are suddenly there. And next thing I know, I'm in jail. And suddenly you're like, Suddenly I found myself in jail. I found myself guilty of manslaughter and something that is absolutely irreversible happening, which is, you know, someone lost their life at my hand.

Basically.

Basically.

And so after that, I, you know, I ended up, I found myself in jail and doing time. And suddenly everything that had come was gone. Like, everything that I had made, gone. It all went, you know, out.

And so after that, I, you know, I ended up, I found myself in jail and doing time. And suddenly everything that had come was gone. Like, everything that I had made, gone. It all went, you know, out.

To the settlement. I didn't even have time to spend it. I didn't even have time to register that it was there. And it was gone. Because it was like it was not real. And then you find yourself in jail. And suddenly everything is gone.

To the settlement. I didn't even have time to spend it. I didn't even have time to register that it was there. And it was gone. Because it was like it was not real. And then you find yourself in jail. And suddenly everything is gone.

career is gone everybody stops calling it's over two number two hit films doesn't matter it's all over in fact it was right in the middle of the publicity on Beowulf it was just toward the end of it and um it was it's the most horrible thing that that has ever happened to me and I um

career is gone everybody stops calling it's over two number two hit films doesn't matter it's all over in fact it was right in the middle of the publicity on Beowulf it was just toward the end of it and um it was it's the most horrible thing that that has ever happened to me and I um

And I found myself then alone in jail, incarcerated, alone with my remorse and regret and really getting existential about things. Really, like, coming to appreciate... you know, simple existence is the best thing there is. It's people don't appreciate what we have. You don't appreciate it until it's gone. And it is, can go like, first of all, we live in bodies of glass.

And I found myself then alone in jail, incarcerated, alone with my remorse and regret and really getting existential about things. Really, like, coming to appreciate... you know, simple existence is the best thing there is. It's people don't appreciate what we have. You don't appreciate it until it's gone. And it is, can go like, first of all, we live in bodies of glass.

My wife was horribly injured and, you know, and it has been a decade to, you know, to not just rebuild our lives, but to, you know, For her to come back to health, even what it did, though, you know, as because I would do anything to to reverse that, to reverse what happened. I would give anything to do it. And I don't say this lightly, but having said that.

My wife was horribly injured and, you know, and it has been a decade to, you know, to not just rebuild our lives, but to, you know, For her to come back to health, even what it did, though, you know, as because I would do anything to to reverse that, to reverse what happened. I would give anything to do it. And I don't say this lightly, but having said that.

I'm kind of grateful as well, because I was. like asleep walking through life. And it wasn't until that happened that I completely like it changed how I see everything. It was like my third eye opened up. I don't view anything the same way. I you know, once you've been in incarcerated and you've been deprived of of everything and you have a lot of time to think and be existential.

I'm kind of grateful as well, because I was. like asleep walking through life. And it wasn't until that happened that I completely like it changed how I see everything. It was like my third eye opened up. I don't view anything the same way. I you know, once you've been in incarcerated and you've been deprived of of everything and you have a lot of time to think and be existential.

You come out of that. At least I came out of that experience. And, you know, I looked at a tree and I was like, OK, that's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. I hope I never not feel this way. This this appreciation for a cloud, you know, to be able like when you're imprisoned, to be able to pet a cat, for example. It's so simple. It's such a nothing thing, you think.

You come out of that. At least I came out of that experience. And, you know, I looked at a tree and I was like, OK, that's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. I hope I never not feel this way. This this appreciation for a cloud, you know, to be able like when you're imprisoned, to be able to pet a cat, for example. It's so simple. It's such a nothing thing, you think.

It changes your strategy, though.

It changes your strategy, though.

OK, to be able to pet an animal is like a gift. The simplest things are gifts. When I was in jail, it was also a little bit like a comedy. You have people walking in circles and everybody's trying to control the outside. So you start really seeing human behavior up front. I mean, when I was in jail, there... during the Academy Awards. It's on the TV in the tank.

OK, to be able to pet an animal is like a gift. The simplest things are gifts. When I was in jail, it was also a little bit like a comedy. You have people walking in circles and everybody's trying to control the outside. So you start really seeing human behavior up front. I mean, when I was in jail, there... during the Academy Awards. It's on the TV in the tank.

And I'm watching him win, like, for Django.

And I'm watching him win, like, for Django.

So while Quentin is, like, at the height of things, I'm pretty much at the bottom.

So while Quentin is, like, at the height of things, I'm pretty much at the bottom.

And not only that, but Greg Shapiro, who produced the Rules of Attraction for me, my producer, who came and visited me with Robin Wright in the days that followed, he won for Zero Dark Thirty. And so I'm like there like, like. To be taken from one point where you feel like you're at the top and you're like, oh, you think you understand things. No, I'm going to take you and put you at the bottom.

And not only that, but Greg Shapiro, who produced the Rules of Attraction for me, my producer, who came and visited me with Robin Wright in the days that followed, he won for Zero Dark Thirty. And so I'm like there like, like. To be taken from one point where you feel like you're at the top and you're like, oh, you think you understand things. No, I'm going to take you and put you at the bottom.

But let me tell you something. In that moment I was sitting on the asphalt and my wife came back to life, I immediately knew what I had to say as a filmmaker after that. It was like whatever had whatever cynicism I had had, you know, about the movie and not making it. It just went away.

But let me tell you something. In that moment I was sitting on the asphalt and my wife came back to life, I immediately knew what I had to say as a filmmaker after that. It was like whatever had whatever cynicism I had had, you know, about the movie and not making it. It just went away.

It evaporated. And the ecstatic experiences and they were ecstatic that I had in jail were like, I mean, you see things kind of for real when you see somebody, you know, get hanged by their celly in a cell or when you see when you know that. You know, oh, that El Salvadorian MS-13 hitman guy. He's going to kill that that gay dude. He's going to kill him in the yard.

It evaporated. And the ecstatic experiences and they were ecstatic that I had in jail were like, I mean, you see things kind of for real when you see somebody, you know, get hanged by their celly in a cell or when you see when you know that. You know, oh, that El Salvadorian MS-13 hitman guy. He's going to kill that that gay dude. He's going to kill him in the yard.

I'll go lock myself in my cell. Literally, I'll go lock myself in. Shut the door because you know shit is going to go down. And so like like that was like every day. And so suddenly it was like, you know. And also, you really know who stands with you after something horrible happens.

I'll go lock myself in my cell. Literally, I'll go lock myself in. Shut the door because you know shit is going to go down. And so like like that was like every day. And so suddenly it was like, you know. And also, you really know who stands with you after something horrible happens.

And like John Langley, our customer from Video Archives, ended up being like... Like I said, when I was in jail, he loaned me money and he gave me my first job when I got out. That was our customer who did that. And so... Like I value our customers. And and and and especially John and his family and Maggie, who I like. It really is.

And like John Langley, our customer from Video Archives, ended up being like... Like I said, when I was in jail, he loaned me money and he gave me my first job when I got out. That was our customer who did that. And so... Like I value our customers. And and and and especially John and his family and Maggie, who I like. It really is.

I talk about John a lot, but really, Maggie, she was really my big champion, I think. And so anyhow, I, you know. What it taught me, actually. because I was a filmmaker and I was up my own ass most of the time. But what it kind of taught me was, you know, Be compassionate to other people because you might not know it, but they might be going through shit in their lives.

I talk about John a lot, but really, Maggie, she was really my big champion, I think. And so anyhow, I, you know. What it taught me, actually. because I was a filmmaker and I was up my own ass most of the time. But what it kind of taught me was, you know, Be compassionate to other people because you might not know it, but they might be going through shit in their lives.

You know, and God forbid it be something health related, which is almost out of your control. But, you know, people are suffering and people are struggling. And I used to be a lot more cavalier about people and kind of fuck with people and and be forceful people and not really care as much. Now I'm acutely aware of people and, you know, what they may be going through.

You know, and God forbid it be something health related, which is almost out of your control. But, you know, people are suffering and people are struggling. And I used to be a lot more cavalier about people and kind of fuck with people and and be forceful people and not really care as much. Now I'm acutely aware of people and, you know, what they may be going through.

Patreon.com slash Video Archives. If you just look up VideoArchivesPodcast.com, it'll link you there. Beautiful. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

Patreon.com slash Video Archives. If you just look up VideoArchivesPodcast.com, it'll link you there. Beautiful. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

Yeah. Wow. I'm sure they had the attitude of, well, just brush them aside.

Yeah. Wow. I'm sure they had the attitude of, well, just brush them aside.

And so consequently, because you can only get three or 12 Top Guns, whatever it is, it's not as many as Blockbuster is getting, you end up having to focus on, like, how am I going to convince my clientele to watch something other than Top Gun this weekend? And so it... Well, landed on us to basically say, oh, you can't get Top Gun. Well, how about this movie?

And so consequently, because you can only get three or 12 Top Guns, whatever it is, it's not as many as Blockbuster is getting, you end up having to focus on, like, how am I going to convince my clientele to watch something other than Top Gun this weekend? And so it... Well, landed on us to basically say, oh, you can't get Top Gun. Well, how about this movie?

Just like when I told Quentin about this, he's like, well, what are those? I'd like to hear those. Everybody wants to hear those. And so one of the ones that I think is the best one is you inject someone with coffee, caffeine, like just inject coffee into their bloodstream, gives them a heart attack. And it's untraceable. Later on, they do an autopsy and they just discover caffeine in your system.

Just like when I told Quentin about this, he's like, well, what are those? I'd like to hear those. Everybody wants to hear those. And so one of the ones that I think is the best one is you inject someone with coffee, caffeine, like just inject coffee into their bloodstream, gives them a heart attack. And it's untraceable. Later on, they do an autopsy and they just discover caffeine in your system.

And there's no algorithm to tell them what to do. We're the algorithm. You have to know, oh, this guy, oh, they're on a date night, so they're going to want this kind of rom-com type movie. Or this guy, he really likes, you know, Vietnamese hooker porn tapes. I got to make sure to find something like that for him. And those kids, they're going to want, you know, some skate stuff.

And there's no algorithm to tell them what to do. We're the algorithm. You have to know, oh, this guy, oh, they're on a date night, so they're going to want this kind of rom-com type movie. Or this guy, he really likes, you know, Vietnamese hooker porn tapes. I got to make sure to find something like that for him. And those kids, they're going to want, you know, some skate stuff.

So I've got to learn all about the Bones Brigade videos and stuff like that. And so, you know, you just kind of figured out, like, how can I upsell the stuff that they haven't heard of? Because invariably, anybody who comes in.

So I've got to learn all about the Bones Brigade videos and stuff like that. And so, you know, you just kind of figured out, like, how can I upsell the stuff that they haven't heard of? Because invariably, anybody who comes in.

More like the challenge. You guys are like a married couple. Totally, we're like a married couple.

More like the challenge. You guys are like a married couple. Totally, we're like a married couple.

Just tell them the whole story.

Just tell them the whole story.

Yeah, and we would pop a movie on and like, you know, pop the movie on and be watching scenes from it and be talking about the scenes and a customer would come in or many customers would come in and they'd just become part of the conversation and we would have like, you know, like a chat room in the... No, no, there was like... No, there was... There was about like 15 customers that like...

Yeah, and we would pop a movie on and like, you know, pop the movie on and be watching scenes from it and be talking about the scenes and a customer would come in or many customers would come in and they'd just become part of the conversation and we would have like, you know, like a chat room in the... No, no, there was like... No, there was... There was about like 15 customers that like...

His father owned another video store that I worked at as well and that Quentin used to come into.

His father owned another video store that I worked at as well and that Quentin used to come into.

Yeah, it's kind of a zombie movie. More of an afterlife film.

Yeah, it's kind of a zombie movie. More of an afterlife film.

Yeah. And, you know, like I was friends with all the punk guys because it was like L.A. punk. And so they were always in my movie. All the punks were in my movies because they were media literate. They loved movies. And so they were easy to pull in and to be in the film. So they were always playing like, you know, the gang of punks who beat somebody up or something like that.

Yeah. And, you know, like I was friends with all the punk guys because it was like L.A. punk. And so they were always in my movie. All the punks were in my movies because they were media literate. They loved movies. And so they were easy to pull in and to be in the film. So they were always playing like, you know, the gang of punks who beat somebody up or something like that.

So it must have been cool working at a video store, though, because it's essentially like you have – it's like an education. Well, when the time came where we actually wanted to be making movies, where we were talking about making movies – because I can remember when – I think it was around the time of Sex, Lies, and Videotape, or maybe She's Gotta Have It.

So it must have been cool working at a video store, though, because it's essentially like you have – it's like an education. Well, when the time came where we actually wanted to be making movies, where we were talking about making movies – because I can remember when – I think it was around the time of Sex, Lies, and Videotape, or maybe She's Gotta Have It.

Coffee can kill you? Sometimes the simple ways are the best.

Coffee can kill you? Sometimes the simple ways are the best.

But I remember you coming to me and saying – The moment is happening.

But I remember you coming to me and saying – The moment is happening.

It's happening. Like, a small movie is possible to get made. Like, it's happening for us, for guys our age.

It's happening. Like, a small movie is possible to get made. Like, it's happening for us, for guys our age.

Yes. Jesus. After extracting whatever information you need to get out of him. How much coffee will kill you like that? A syringe worth? I don't know. Is it the Turkish kind or is it Folgers?

Yes. Jesus. After extracting whatever information you need to get out of him. How much coffee will kill you like that? A syringe worth? I don't know. Is it the Turkish kind or is it Folgers?

If you keep one foot in... Because it's entertaining. Yeah, if you keep one foot in exploitation, in some way, in genre, if you keep your foundation in genre, then you can do whatever you want. Like, my favorite filmmaker is Stanley Kubrick. I love Kubrick movies. Okay... One can pretty much look at all of his films and say each and every one is a genre film. He's got his science fiction movie.

If you keep one foot in... Because it's entertaining. Yeah, if you keep one foot in exploitation, in some way, in genre, if you keep your foundation in genre, then you can do whatever you want. Like, my favorite filmmaker is Stanley Kubrick. I love Kubrick movies. Okay... One can pretty much look at all of his films and say each and every one is a genre film. He's got his science fiction movie.

He's got a horror movie. Even Barry Lyndon as a costume drama at the time.

He's got a horror movie. Even Barry Lyndon as a costume drama at the time.

That was a solid, bankable genre.

That was a solid, bankable genre.

The book was serialized, wasn't it? It was like Thackeray wrote them in like an episode.

The book was serialized, wasn't it? It was like Thackeray wrote them in like an episode.

Yeah. And so, yeah, it was all... if you can, if you can, I, and I knew this making my first film and I know Quentin, you were talking about it. This was the conversation we were actively having of, we have to make sure that we make a movie. People want to see like a genre film, like, and I was calling them exploitation movies at the time. Like I want to keep one foot in exploitation.

Yeah. And so, yeah, it was all... if you can, if you can, I, and I knew this making my first film and I know Quentin, you were talking about it. This was the conversation we were actively having of, we have to make sure that we make a movie. People want to see like a genre film, like, and I was calling them exploitation movies at the time. Like I want to keep one foot in exploitation.

Okay, so I got to know all these. You were talking about some... His name's John McPhee. Some operators. And I got to know through a friend, through a billionaire friend who loaned his plane to Clinton to fly those people out of, I think, North Korea. And so from that point on, he was surrounded by these guys. And one of them, this guy Mikey, which isn't his real name.

Okay, so I got to know all these. You were talking about some... His name's John McPhee. Some operators. And I got to know through a friend, through a billionaire friend who loaned his plane to Clinton to fly those people out of, I think, North Korea. And so from that point on, he was surrounded by these guys. And one of them, this guy Mikey, which isn't his real name.

And then, but at the same time, I'm like, well, I kind of also want to make like, you know, I want to elevate it as much as possible. And so when the time came for me to make my first, first film, uh, killing. So, um, You know, it was like I knew it was going to be a bank robbery because I wrote it around a location.

And then, but at the same time, I'm like, well, I kind of also want to make like, you know, I want to elevate it as much as possible. And so when the time came for me to make my first, first film, uh, killing. So, um, You know, it was like I knew it was going to be a bank robbery because I wrote it around a location.

You know, we found this while they were scouting for Reservoir Dogs, Lawrence Bender. Or maybe you also had scouted that location, found this bank location. And Lawrence called me up. He's like, hey, I'm calling all the writers I know. I found this bank location.

You know, we found this while they were scouting for Reservoir Dogs, Lawrence Bender. Or maybe you also had scouted that location, found this bank location. And Lawrence called me up. He's like, hey, I'm calling all the writers I know. I found this bank location.

And if you can if you have a script that takes place in a bank, we can kick together a couple hundred thousand dollars and make a movie there. It's like this complete, solid, amazing location. And I said, oh, my God, Lawrence, this is your lucky day. I happen to have a script that takes place in a bank. And then I just quickly wrote one based on the location.

And if you can if you have a script that takes place in a bank, we can kick together a couple hundred thousand dollars and make a movie there. It's like this complete, solid, amazing location. And I said, oh, my God, Lawrence, this is your lucky day. I happen to have a script that takes place in a bank. And then I just quickly wrote one based on the location.

Yeah. But he was a medic during the war. Well, The war. And he was a medic. And so he, you know, was kind of identified as somebody who knew how to kill somebody very easily because, you know, what will work.

Yeah. But he was a medic during the war. Well, The war. And he was a medic. And so he, you know, was kind of identified as somebody who knew how to kill somebody very easily because, you know, what will work.

And as I was writing it, I was thinking, OK, you know, I know that it's going to be a bank robbery. It's a bank. And so I know it's going to be a bank robbery. And that's my solid bankable genre that I'm going to stick with. But I knew I wanted to do something more with it. And I had just traveled through Europe and and I had been telling Quentin the stories of traveling through Europe.

And as I was writing it, I was thinking, OK, you know, I know that it's going to be a bank robbery. It's a bank. And so I know it's going to be a bank robbery. And that's my solid bankable genre that I'm going to stick with. But I knew I wanted to do something more with it. And I had just traveled through Europe and and I had been telling Quentin the stories of traveling through Europe.

He's like, oh, you should do a movie called Roger Takes a Trip. And I still think it should have been called that. I think it's a different movie.

He's like, oh, you should do a movie called Roger Takes a Trip. And I still think it should have been called that. I think it's a different movie.

I had been in Paris. I had bumped into a guy that I knew from Los Angeles who was a French guy. And he was like, oh, I'll show you the real Paris. And I went out with he and his friends, Enrique, Jean, Claude, all the characters from the movie. I went out with him and his friends and we, you know... He drove me through Paris. And next thing I know, he's doing heroin. With you? No, not with me.

I had been in Paris. I had bumped into a guy that I knew from Los Angeles who was a French guy. And he was like, oh, I'll show you the real Paris. And I went out with he and his friends, Enrique, Jean, Claude, all the characters from the movie. I went out with him and his friends and we, you know... He drove me through Paris. And next thing I know, he's doing heroin. With you? No, not with me.

Hold my arm. I did hold his arm. For real? Yeah, yeah. I had never seen anything like that.

Hold my arm. I did hold his arm. For real? Yeah, yeah. I had never seen anything like that.

Hold my arm. He was the tying arm. Roger was the tying arm. Roger, hold my arm while I shoot up.

Hold my arm. He was the tying arm. Roger was the tying arm. Roger, hold my arm while I shoot up.

Yes. Suddenly that happens.

Yes. Suddenly that happens.

Yeah. His friends are like, oh, doing it in the nose doesn't even affect me anymore. You know, things like that. And I'm like writing these lines down like this is great shit. And so I get back and I tell Quentin like about this whole story and about these guys and going, you know, driving around the Champs-Élysées. This is where the fags show themselves.

Yeah. His friends are like, oh, doing it in the nose doesn't even affect me anymore. You know, things like that. And I'm like writing these lines down like this is great shit. And so I get back and I tell Quentin like about this whole story and about these guys and going, you know, driving around the Champs-Élysées. This is where the fags show themselves.

Now we go into the nightclub down below and we do more heroin. I'm like, what about the cops? Aren't the police going to say anything? It's safer here than, you know, like you can do heroin anywhere in Paris. And it was like, no, I work at Le Monde. Like all of it was like basically everything in that movie, you know, was stuff that I'd actually seen.

Now we go into the nightclub down below and we do more heroin. I'm like, what about the cops? Aren't the police going to say anything? It's safer here than, you know, like you can do heroin anywhere in Paris. And it was like, no, I work at Le Monde. Like all of it was like basically everything in that movie, you know, was stuff that I'd actually seen.

And so when the time came to make it as a bank robbery film, I just, you know, I'm thinking about it. I'm like, well, it's a bank robbery movie, but it's going to be about these guys. And it just became a movie about a guy going someplace and everything that he thought he knew is wrong. You know, like you think, you know, you haven't seen your friend in a while. You go see him.

And so when the time came to make it as a bank robbery film, I just, you know, I'm thinking about it. I'm like, well, it's a bank robbery movie, but it's going to be about these guys. And it just became a movie about a guy going someplace and everything that he thought he knew is wrong. You know, like you think, you know, you haven't seen your friend in a while. You go see him.

Okay, it's all about that kind of friendship and misconception. He's downstairs at the bank. Jean-Yves Ganglade, the bad guy, is upstairs. Chaos is going on upstairs. He has no idea what's going on upstairs. And so this kind of just became what the movie was about. And so I just quickly wrote the script. And then, you know, we ended up not even using that location to shoot the movie in.

Okay, it's all about that kind of friendship and misconception. He's downstairs at the bank. Jean-Yves Ganglade, the bad guy, is upstairs. Chaos is going on upstairs. He has no idea what's going on upstairs. And so this kind of just became what the movie was about. And so I just quickly wrote the script. And then, you know, we ended up not even using that location to shoot the movie in.

Because you're a medic. And so, you know, I would hear every now and then I'd kill some guy and some diplomat or something in the Philippines and hit him with my car and whatever.

Because you're a medic. And so, you know, I would hear every now and then I'd kill some guy and some diplomat or something in the Philippines and hit him with my car and whatever.

It came together well. And I ended up shooting in downtown L.A. instead. But but it was the seed was planted. The seed was planted. So the idea was, OK, I'm going to make a French film out of it because I'm like in L.A. I'm making a film. What can I do that would be different, like that would make this more than just a bank robbery movie?

It came together well. And I ended up shooting in downtown L.A. instead. But but it was the seed was planted. The seed was planted. So the idea was, OK, I'm going to make a French film out of it because I'm like in L.A. I'm making a film. What can I do that would be different, like that would make this more than just a bank robbery movie?

I didn't even really speak French. I just thought it would be kind of cool. I like, you know, a cool French girl and like greasy, dirty French guys, French criminals. And I always loved, you know, Alain Delon and Le Samurai, you know, the way he wears a suit and the way he carries a gun and the way he walks around. I just like I, you know, just adored all of that.

I didn't even really speak French. I just thought it would be kind of cool. I like, you know, a cool French girl and like greasy, dirty French guys, French criminals. And I always loved, you know, Alain Delon and Le Samurai, you know, the way he wears a suit and the way he carries a gun and the way he walks around. I just like I, you know, just adored all of that.

And so it was like, well, let's put all of that kind of.

And so it was like, well, let's put all of that kind of.

space that's in my brain into the movie and then the movies tend to take on a life of their own they tend to be like children you know it starts off as a concept as a conception has a conception and then it has an infancy and then you're raising that child to become the movie and along the way you're really just kind of protecting it and trying to allow it to grow into what it's going to grow into without forcing it to become something that it's not and

space that's in my brain into the movie and then the movies tend to take on a life of their own they tend to be like children you know it starts off as a concept as a conception has a conception and then it has an infancy and then you're raising that child to become the movie and along the way you're really just kind of protecting it and trying to allow it to grow into what it's going to grow into without forcing it to become something that it's not and

And it's a little bit of a balance. You have to be a good parent, which means you have to give it a little bit of freedom to grow into something that you don't know what it's going to be. But at the same time, you have to be willing to be strong with it as well.

And it's a little bit of a balance. You have to be a good parent, which means you have to give it a little bit of freedom to grow into something that you don't know what it's going to be. But at the same time, you have to be willing to be strong with it as well.

I think I'm really good at making underappreciated movies. I think I've built a career on underappreciated movies.

I think I'm really good at making underappreciated movies. I think I've built a career on underappreciated movies.

I'd look in my rearview mirror and make a determination, a medical determination of, you know, is the guy still alive or is he better finish him off and put him in reverse and drive him over again a couple of times and then take off. And he's doing that all the time.

I'd look in my rearview mirror and make a determination, a medical determination of, you know, is the guy still alive or is he better finish him off and put him in reverse and drive him over again a couple of times and then take off. And he's doing that all the time.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Dog Day Afternoon's not in, but we can get you Killing Zoe.

Dog Day Afternoon's not in, but we can get you Killing Zoe.

Yeah. No, Quentin did that. Actually, Quentin was a great gorilla to have on my side at that time.

Yeah. No, Quentin did that. Actually, Quentin was a great gorilla to have on my side at that time.

The only people that don't operate out of fear, I think, is the director and the actors. Those are the ones who, if everything's working right, you're fearless. It's always executives that fuck everything up.

The only people that don't operate out of fear, I think, is the director and the actors. Those are the ones who, if everything's working right, you're fearless. It's always executives that fuck everything up.

The scene was shot for... Explain the scene better.

The scene was shot for... Explain the scene better.

The movie was shot for very little money. We had no money to make it. So I had to shoot the entire upstairs first and then the downstairs because it's like doing a company move. But I had kept – I knew that when writing – and this was sort of a kind of a rule that we had was, one, make a genre movie.

The movie was shot for very little money. We had no money to make it. So I had to shoot the entire upstairs first and then the downstairs because it's like doing a company move. But I had kept – I knew that when writing – and this was sort of a kind of a rule that we had was, one, make a genre movie.

I'm going to. I'm going to.

I'm going to. I'm going to.

The scene was a replacement for another scene that was in the movie that was too expensive to shoot. That's the short of it.

The scene was a replacement for another scene that was in the movie that was too expensive to shoot. That's the short of it.

What I replaced it with was, and I had to fight for it, was a single shot because originally he goes downstairs and he sees a bunch of like guys coming in through the sewer. So he starts machine gunning people in the sewer because there was like a little sewer manhole in the bottom of the bank. I was like, well, let's use that.

What I replaced it with was, and I had to fight for it, was a single shot because originally he goes downstairs and he sees a bunch of like guys coming in through the sewer. So he starts machine gunning people in the sewer because there was like a little sewer manhole in the bottom of the bank. I was like, well, let's use that.

And so I had this whole thing and the bond company showed up and you're like, you're behind schedule and you've got to like, you know, we're going to, you've got to cut pages and I couldn't cut anything and I'm shooting upstairs, downstairs stuff. And so it's like I had to have something because he leaves the scene and then comes back angry. And so I knew I knew I needed to have something.

And so I had this whole thing and the bond company showed up and you're like, you're behind schedule and you've got to like, you know, we're going to, you've got to cut pages and I couldn't cut anything and I'm shooting upstairs, downstairs stuff. And so it's like I had to have something because he leaves the scene and then comes back angry. And so I knew I knew I needed to have something.

And originally I had this whole scene where the cops are coming in and he reacts to that. And so I said, OK, I just need one shot. And because it's all I could had time to do because fucking bond company. And so I set up, which were actually really cool to me. They were actually film finances was great. Yeah. They, I just set up a single camera.

And originally I had this whole scene where the cops are coming in and he reacts to that. And so I said, OK, I just need one shot. And because it's all I could had time to do because fucking bond company. And so I set up, which were actually really cool to me. They were actually film finances was great. Yeah. They, I just set up a single camera.

I asked for a kind of a Kubrickian lens, a nice wide, like maybe a 14 millimeter lens. And I just had John Hughes walk up into a closeup and I just had him do, I said, just walk into a closeup and just start looking around and just start seeing things coming out of the walls. And is that the shot you're talking about? And he does like a little magic trick beforehand, like. No.

I asked for a kind of a Kubrickian lens, a nice wide, like maybe a 14 millimeter lens. And I just had John Hughes walk up into a closeup and I just had him do, I said, just walk into a closeup and just start looking around and just start seeing things coming out of the walls. And is that the shot you're talking about? And he does like a little magic trick beforehand, like. No.

That's not the one you're talking about? No. That's the great shot.

That's not the one you're talking about? No. That's the great shot.

That's the shot I'm talking about. Look, he's looking into the walls. He's looking around.

That's the shot I'm talking about. Look, he's looking into the walls. He's looking around.

I added those lines of dialogue in.

I added those lines of dialogue in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it just shows that sometimes if you can't do what you want to do, what you come up with is better. And this was an example of it rained that day and I had to use the rain. That's sort of the example.

Well, it just shows that sometimes if you can't do what you want to do, what you come up with is better. And this was an example of it rained that day and I had to use the rain. That's sort of the example.

You don't want to know what's in that sausage.

You don't want to know what's in that sausage.

Well, it was very sweet, but it started off sour. It started off sour because I couldn't do what I wanted to do. And so I just came up with something that was, well, he puts it together in his head.

Well, it was very sweet, but it started off sour. It started off sour because I couldn't do what I wanted to do. And so I just came up with something that was, well, he puts it together in his head.

Well, I had Tom Savini on the set because and I couldn't afford Tom Savini, but I found his number. And before I shot and I called him up and in Pittsburgh and I said, Tom Savini is a makeup effects artist who did Dawn of the Dead.

Well, I had Tom Savini on the set because and I couldn't afford Tom Savini, but I found his number. And before I shot and I called him up and in Pittsburgh and I said, Tom Savini is a makeup effects artist who did Dawn of the Dead.

He was in Vietnam and saw some shit. And every time I'm talking to him about stuff like he's like, oh, yeah, well, you know, no, if you're bleeding from back here, you know, there's only two small veins and blah, blah. Because when your head gets knocked off, like he's seen all this stuff. And so this is his way of processing it. But Tom came in and I couldn't afford him.

He was in Vietnam and saw some shit. And every time I'm talking to him about stuff like he's like, oh, yeah, well, you know, no, if you're bleeding from back here, you know, there's only two small veins and blah, blah. Because when your head gets knocked off, like he's seen all this stuff. And so this is his way of processing it. But Tom came in and I couldn't afford him.

I called him up on the phone. I was like, hey, can you think I'm a young filmmaker? I'm, you know, I'm your biggest fan. Like, makeup effects, blah, blah, blah. Okay, he flew himself out. We had no money to pay him. I think we paid him, like, some tiny amount.

I called him up on the phone. I was like, hey, can you think I'm a young filmmaker? I'm, you know, I'm your biggest fan. Like, makeup effects, blah, blah, blah. Okay, he flew himself out. We had no money to pay him. I think we paid him, like, some tiny amount.

He flew himself to L.A., put himself up, worked on the film, and he made that burn makeup on that burned guard in the vault out of Vaseline paint and tissue paper. And I watched him make... It was the most unbelievable thing, how he made blisters and burn effects. And it was like watching...

He flew himself to L.A., put himself up, worked on the film, and he made that burn makeup on that burned guard in the vault out of Vaseline paint and tissue paper. And I watched him make... It was the most unbelievable thing, how he made blisters and burn effects. And it was like watching...

34% denial rate.

34% denial rate.

I don't think anybody's going to be crying too hard over that guy.

I don't think anybody's going to be crying too hard over that guy.

Yeah, like five years younger mentally.

Yeah, like five years younger mentally.

Or emotionally.

Or emotionally.

Again, it's management.

Again, it's management.

Well, actually, all insurance. I live in California. And all of a sudden, because I live adjacent to any kind of open space, like nobody will insure my house because of fire.

Well, actually, all insurance. I live in California. And all of a sudden, because I live adjacent to any kind of open space, like nobody will insure my house because of fire.

And so suddenly it's like I have a house that's uninsurable. And it's not just me. It's everybody. And so it's chaos. Yeah.

And so suddenly it's like I have a house that's uninsurable. And it's not just me. It's everybody. And so it's chaos. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. You know, that's the weird realization that you end up having.

Right. Yeah. You know, that's the weird realization that you end up having.

Yeah, it's insane. It's fucking nuts. It's insane.

Yeah, it's insane. It's fucking nuts. It's insane.

Yeah. At any moment.

Yeah. At any moment.

At any moment, there's a circle of people rising in any industry. Yes. And it's just a matter of finding those people. And those people will all gravitate towards the same things. Yeah.

At any moment, there's a circle of people rising in any industry. Yes. And it's just a matter of finding those people. And those people will all gravitate towards the same things. Yeah.

I mean, the benefit of your place is you're at least in a helicopter accessible. They're just going to dump all that fire retardant right on top of you.

I mean, the benefit of your place is you're at least in a helicopter accessible. They're just going to dump all that fire retardant right on top of you.

It takes forever. You have to fail. You have to have the opportunities to fail.

It takes forever. You have to fail. You have to have the opportunities to fail.

You had to do it, but you really do have to do it. Cut the dead weight. I recall living in Hollywood as well.

You had to do it, but you really do have to do it. Cut the dead weight. I recall living in Hollywood as well.

Freaking Franklin. Yes, you did.

Freaking Franklin. Yes, you did.

And I think that place has probably been there a while. It's probably withstood all sorts of calamity.

And I think that place has probably been there a while. It's probably withstood all sorts of calamity.

Almost the worst thing that can happen is getting comfortable, which I think is what you were talking about.

Almost the worst thing that can happen is getting comfortable, which I think is what you were talking about.

I worked on Lords of Dogtown, the movie about Zephyr surfboards and skateboarding and polyurethane wheels and surfing. And I'm not like a surfer or anything, but my entry point into that movie was Zephyr surfboards was exactly like video archives. And I imagine that this is like this in a lot of places where, you know, you have a shop.

I worked on Lords of Dogtown, the movie about Zephyr surfboards and skateboarding and polyurethane wheels and surfing. And I'm not like a surfer or anything, but my entry point into that movie was Zephyr surfboards was exactly like video archives. And I imagine that this is like this in a lot of places where, you know, you have a shop.

They make they do skateboards and they've got a shaper guy there, Skip Englund, who is a surfboard shaper. And he was sort of like Lance, the guy who owned Video Archives. And he started a shop and he's selling to all the kids locally and all the kids who like love surfing, you know, like Stacey Peralta or Tony Alva or guys like that.

They make they do skateboards and they've got a shaper guy there, Skip Englund, who is a surfboard shaper. And he was sort of like Lance, the guy who owned Video Archives. And he started a shop and he's selling to all the kids locally and all the kids who like love surfing, you know, like Stacey Peralta or Tony Alva or guys like that.

They would just go hang out there just like we would go hang out at the video store. And so I looked at that and I was like, OK, I don't really know anything about these guys other than YouTube. growing up in the beach community. But my real entry point was I understand gravitating towards what you love and wanting to be close to it.

They would just go hang out there just like we would go hang out at the video store. And so I looked at that and I was like, OK, I don't really know anything about these guys other than YouTube. growing up in the beach community. But my real entry point was I understand gravitating towards what you love and wanting to be close to it.

And that if a video store is the closest thing to Hollywood in your town, that's where you go. Or if it's, if it's not a movie theater.

And that if a video store is the closest thing to Hollywood in your town, that's where you go. Or if it's, if it's not a movie theater.

Access to all those titles.

Access to all those titles.

You have to tailor it to her.

You have to tailor it to her.

Oh, yeah. I was in San Francisco once, and the guys from Red Cross, the punk band, they were customers of ours. I was like, oh, they're doing a signing at this local record shop. I'll just go show up. I'll just show up there on Hey, Ashbury. And I walk in, and immediately the McDonald Brothers guys were like, hey, it's the video store guy. Hey, man, come back behind with us.

Oh, yeah. I was in San Francisco once, and the guys from Red Cross, the punk band, they were customers of ours. I was like, oh, they're doing a signing at this local record shop. I'll just go show up. I'll just show up there on Hey, Ashbury. And I walk in, and immediately the McDonald Brothers guys were like, hey, it's the video store guy. Hey, man, come back behind with us.

I don't think they talk like that.

I don't think they talk like that.

It still doesn't give you the full... It's like, you know, oh, I'm just going to smoke a little weed compared to I'm going to mainline, you know, heroin.

It still doesn't give you the full... It's like, you know, oh, I'm just going to smoke a little weed compared to I'm going to mainline, you know, heroin.

We were first trying to make True Romance. You know, Quentin had this amazing screenplay, and it was like we were going to try to do it Coen Brothers style. We had just seen Blood Simple, and we were like, okay, I'm going to produce. Quentin's going to direct. We're going to go out and make this.

We were first trying to make True Romance. You know, Quentin had this amazing screenplay, and it was like we were going to try to do it Coen Brothers style. We had just seen Blood Simple, and we were like, okay, I'm going to produce. Quentin's going to direct. We're going to go out and make this.

Our first thought was, okay, we've got this database of doctors and lawyers and housewives in Manhattan Beach. We're going to go to the video store. You know, we ended up not doing that.

Our first thought was, okay, we've got this database of doctors and lawyers and housewives in Manhattan Beach. We're going to go to the video store. You know, we ended up not doing that.

We strategize about it a lot, but we never actually... I drew up full partnership papers before that whole dream failed of doing it that way.

We strategize about it a lot, but we never actually... I drew up full partnership papers before that whole dream failed of doing it that way.

Who would let that guy in?

Who would let that guy in?

Yes. You know, invariably they hire you because you scare them a little. you're a little scary and they want to be like a little thrilled by that. But then, you know, like a girlfriend or something, they want to change you. They think they're going to make you normal. And then it falls on you to just stay true to that initial guy who was in the room.

Yes. You know, invariably they hire you because you scare them a little. you're a little scary and they want to be like a little thrilled by that. But then, you know, like a girlfriend or something, they want to change you. They think they're going to make you normal. And then it falls on you to just stay true to that initial guy who was in the room.

The thing is, fires were normal. Like it used to be when I was young, you know, I grew up in California. And so when I was young, fires would burn through Malibu constantly. But now they put all those houses in there where there never were houses because the fire is a natural process. It kind of clears the land, cleans the land. And it's normal, actually.

The thing is, fires were normal. Like it used to be when I was young, you know, I grew up in California. And so when I was young, fires would burn through Malibu constantly. But now they put all those houses in there where there never were houses because the fire is a natural process. It kind of clears the land, cleans the land. And it's normal, actually.

That is so the right move.

That is so the right move.

Yeah, absolutely he is. When I was young, one of my first jobs was actually given to me by one of our customers, this guy, John Langley, who did that show Cops. And so like he was, you know, getting his power turned off and stuff like, you know, constantly. And he was struggling to get by.

Yeah, absolutely he is. When I was young, one of my first jobs was actually given to me by one of our customers, this guy, John Langley, who did that show Cops. And so like he was, you know, getting his power turned off and stuff like, you know, constantly. And he was struggling to get by.

And he would do these little things with Geraldo Rivera that Quentin and I would work on as PAs every now and then.

And he would do these little things with Geraldo Rivera that Quentin and I would work on as PAs every now and then.

We were picking up dog shit in Venice Beach with our hands so that Dolph could do aerobics on that little grassy knoll.

We were picking up dog shit in Venice Beach with our hands so that Dolph could do aerobics on that little grassy knoll.

um and so you know i'm like the first i'm a pa working for him a driver i'm running around town my car is like the transmission is going out i'm trying to figure out what am i going to do this is not what i want to do i don't want to work on cops but like i need the job and so i'm i go in and i meet with with john and he's been a customer of ours and he's fatherly like to me yeah and um

um and so you know i'm like the first i'm a pa working for him a driver i'm running around town my car is like the transmission is going out i'm trying to figure out what am i going to do this is not what i want to do i don't want to work on cops but like i need the job and so i'm i go in and i meet with with john and he's been a customer of ours and he's fatherly like to me yeah and um

I go into his office and I sit down, and Cops has just started. It started because of a Writers Guild strike. There was a Writers Guild strike, and so Fox was like, well, that show has no writers. And so they ordered his thing, and he went from nothing to, like, I'm buying yachts. I'm collecting vineyards.

I go into his office and I sit down, and Cops has just started. It started because of a Writers Guild strike. There was a Writers Guild strike, and so Fox was like, well, that show has no writers. And so they ordered his thing, and he went from nothing to, like, I'm buying yachts. I'm collecting vineyards.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, you know, when you put all that kindling in there, suddenly we end up with these like super storms of fire. Yeah. You know, going crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's overdevelopment, which is the cause of these insane kind of...

But, you know, when you put all that kindling in there, suddenly we end up with these like super storms of fire. Yeah. You know, going crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's overdevelopment, which is the cause of these insane kind of...

I asked him, I said, John, you've worked in this business a long time. He was an AD for a long time. What kind of advice can you give to a guy like me who's trying to work my way up? He's like, well, what do you want to do ultimately? I said, well, I want to direct films. Well, then be a director. Don't work your way up the ladder. Don't try to be a grip and work your way in. Just be a director.

I asked him, I said, John, you've worked in this business a long time. He was an AD for a long time. What kind of advice can you give to a guy like me who's trying to work my way up? He's like, well, what do you want to do ultimately? I said, well, I want to direct films. Well, then be a director. Don't work your way up the ladder. Don't try to be a grip and work your way in. Just be a director.

And I heard that. And he's like, start at the top. It's the best way to go. Just start at the top and, you know, just tell people you're a director. Put yourself in that. Otherwise, people will just pigeonhole you. They'll just say that's who he is. He's a grip or he's a PA or he's you'll you'll have to work your way up. Just tell people who you are. So I thought about it. I was like, OK. I quit.

And I heard that. And he's like, start at the top. It's the best way to go. Just start at the top and, you know, just tell people you're a director. Put yourself in that. Otherwise, people will just pigeonhole you. They'll just say that's who he is. He's a grip or he's a PA or he's you'll you'll have to work your way up. Just tell people who you are. So I thought about it. I was like, OK. I quit.

He's like, what? I said, I quit. I'm a director. And I left. I walked out. I mean, I gave him notice. And I walked out. And he sat there, and he later told me, years later, told me, man, I thought that was the most audacious, ballsy thing. I gave you advice, and you took it right away. And OK, never mind the fact that it took me years of just telling people I'm a director.

He's like, what? I said, I quit. I'm a director. And I left. I walked out. I mean, I gave him notice. And I walked out. And he sat there, and he later told me, years later, told me, man, I thought that was the most audacious, ballsy thing. I gave you advice, and you took it right away. And OK, never mind the fact that it took me years of just telling people I'm a director.

I directed Super 8 movies like I was not a director. I was a poser. I was faking it until I made it. But I told people what I was and what I was doing. And eventually it stuck. Eventually enough people hear it. And all those people who you end up going into a room and pitching your idea and they say no. Eventually they see you at Cannes running around, you know, trying to do foreign sales.

I directed Super 8 movies like I was not a director. I was a poser. I was faking it until I made it. But I told people what I was and what I was doing. And eventually it stuck. Eventually enough people hear it. And all those people who you end up going into a room and pitching your idea and they say no. Eventually they see you at Cannes running around, you know, trying to do foreign sales.

They're like, maybe that kid is a director. It was just believing in yourself when no one else believes what you believe.

They're like, maybe that kid is a director. It was just believing in yourself when no one else believes what you believe.

Morgan, all of his kids.

Morgan, all of his kids.

You know, I just have to say, John Langley, you know, because I had some shit happen to me in my life. I spent some time in jail. I kind of screwed up my life. But when everything went down, when everyone in Hollywood dropped me like a hot rock, John Langley was there. Our customer, John Langley... because we lost everything. He loaned me some money.

You know, I just have to say, John Langley, you know, because I had some shit happen to me in my life. I spent some time in jail. I kind of screwed up my life. But when everything went down, when everyone in Hollywood dropped me like a hot rock, John Langley was there. Our customer, John Langley... because we lost everything. He loaned me some money.

He gave me my first job when I got out of jail, writing something for very little money, but he wanted me back in the saddle.

He gave me my first job when I got out of jail, writing something for very little money, but he wanted me back in the saddle.

Oh, thanks.

Oh, thanks.

I kept a really detailed, super detailed journal about like everything that's going on around me. And, you know, it became a really I mean, that was an. It was a very intense experience being placed into a room, having the doors closed and you're just left with yourself and everything. All your things which define you get stripped away.

I kept a really detailed, super detailed journal about like everything that's going on around me. And, you know, it became a really I mean, that was an. It was a very intense experience being placed into a room, having the doors closed and you're just left with yourself and everything. All your things which define you get stripped away.

Everything gets kind of dropped and you lose who you are and you're just left with your remorse and regret for why you're there. And you have a lot of time to think about things. And but having said that, as a writer, there was a concrete bench that I could sit on. I had golf pencils. I could buy sheets of paper. And and I've never in my life been more productive.

Everything gets kind of dropped and you lose who you are and you're just left with your remorse and regret for why you're there. And you have a lot of time to think about things. And but having said that, as a writer, there was a concrete bench that I could sit on. I had golf pencils. I could buy sheets of paper. And and I've never in my life been more productive.

I've never wanted to write more than when everything was taken away. And I've never felt more about the world. And I've never... It was a very monastic... I was telling Quentin at one point, it was kind of monastic-like. You know, you're in a secular kind of... You're in a cell. You're in a cell and you're...

I've never wanted to write more than when everything was taken away. And I've never felt more about the world. And I've never... It was a very monastic... I was telling Quentin at one point, it was kind of monastic-like. You know, you're in a secular kind of... You're in a cell. You're in a cell and you're...

you're with a bunch of dudes and you're writing, you know, it's like you're, I became a scribe. I started, I mean, I was a scribe beforehand, but I really, really, it became my escape being able to write, being able to fall into things and to be able to travel into another world.

you're with a bunch of dudes and you're writing, you know, it's like you're, I became a scribe. I started, I mean, I was a scribe beforehand, but I really, really, it became my escape being able to write, being able to fall into things and to be able to travel into another world.

I think he's actually named, they name them all after the archangels. So he was like Michael. Oh, Jesus. Gabriel. They take on these names.

I think he's actually named, they name them all after the archangels. So he was like Michael. Oh, Jesus. Gabriel. They take on these names.

And then also people find out you're a writer and they're like, hey man, would you write my, yo essay, would you write my girlfriend? I want to write her a love letter. I need your help. So I wrote like a ton of love letters.

And then also people find out you're a writer and they're like, hey man, would you write my, yo essay, would you write my girlfriend? I want to write her a love letter. I need your help. So I wrote like a ton of love letters.

Oh, yeah. No, totally. Totally. No, actually, I heard some amazing dialogue.

Oh, yeah. No, totally. Totally. No, actually, I heard some amazing dialogue.

Well, there's a book cart. And so every now and then you go through the book cart, and mostly it's like Tom Clancy novels. They love Tom Clancy and stuff like that. And Clive Barker novels and things like that. But- Lo and behold, I found this old Penguin paperback of, you know, an old, old version of Robin Hood written by E. Charles Vivian. And I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be great.

Well, there's a book cart. And so every now and then you go through the book cart, and mostly it's like Tom Clancy novels. They love Tom Clancy and stuff like that. And Clive Barker novels and things like that. But- Lo and behold, I found this old Penguin paperback of, you know, an old, old version of Robin Hood written by E. Charles Vivian. And I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be great.

And I start reading it. And it's like they get into Evil Hold, which is like this castle where, you know, Marion's father is being kept. And nobody knows it. And he's there. And he's not away at Crusades. He's in this prison. And Robin Hood goes into the prison. And in the moment when he's in the prison, how he sees the other prison, the wretches that he has to leave behind.

And I start reading it. And it's like they get into Evil Hold, which is like this castle where, you know, Marion's father is being kept. And nobody knows it. And he's there. And he's not away at Crusades. He's in this prison. And Robin Hood goes into the prison. And in the moment when he's in the prison, how he sees the other prison, the wretches that he has to leave behind.

Because they're too wretched to even come out. Like how bad the prison is and what he's seeing inside and his observations. I was shaking after reading it. I'm shaking thinking about, I mean, the entire experience now. But, you know, it was such a vivid depiction. I'm like, well, I'm adapting this because I'm feeling it right now. I'm feeling like what it's like. I'm feeling what...

Because they're too wretched to even come out. Like how bad the prison is and what he's seeing inside and his observations. I was shaking after reading it. I'm shaking thinking about, I mean, the entire experience now. But, you know, it was such a vivid depiction. I'm like, well, I'm adapting this because I'm feeling it right now. I'm feeling like what it's like. I'm feeling what...

It's like to have authority to have the boot on your on your neck. I mean, rightfully so. But I nevertheless. And and so I started writing, you know, my version of Robin Hood and with on, you know, pencil and paper. And as I'm writing it, like I was crying as I wrote it. I was looking at the pages the other day and there's like teardrops like, wow, all over it, like on every page.

It's like to have authority to have the boot on your on your neck. I mean, rightfully so. But I nevertheless. And and so I started writing, you know, my version of Robin Hood and with on, you know, pencil and paper. And as I'm writing it, like I was crying as I wrote it. I was looking at the pages the other day and there's like teardrops like, wow, all over it, like on every page.

It's like, holy crap. It's like. when you're writing like that and you're feeling that much, it's not a bad thing to cry when you're writing. Yeah. It's like, thank God I'm, I'm feeling like I'm feeling something and it's traveling into the page.

It's like, holy crap. It's like. when you're writing like that and you're feeling that much, it's not a bad thing to cry when you're writing. Yeah. It's like, thank God I'm, I'm feeling like I'm feeling something and it's traveling into the page.

And also because I had been a working writer in Hollywood for a long time, just by speed, I had fallen into the very bad habit of composing at my computer, at my laptop, like one of those assholes who goes to Starbucks. And I was that guy. And so I'm sitting and I, I had kind of become used to that.

And also because I had been a working writer in Hollywood for a long time, just by speed, I had fallen into the very bad habit of composing at my computer, at my laptop, like one of those assholes who goes to Starbucks. And I was that guy. And so I'm sitting and I, I had kind of become used to that.

Well, writing by hand in, well, incarcerated, it reconnected me with like pen to paper or pencil to paper. And it reminded me that when you write something down, you have a different relationship with the word.

Well, writing by hand in, well, incarcerated, it reconnected me with like pen to paper or pencil to paper. And it reminded me that when you write something down, you have a different relationship with the word.

It is the antenna to God. And also, when you type it into the computer, that's a process of rewriting. And so you're losing an entire section. And so it reconnected me with that.

It is the antenna to God. And also, when you type it into the computer, that's a process of rewriting. And so you're losing an entire section. And so it reconnected me with that.

It's like strip mining. You just pull all that dirt out and just process it. Get a little work.

It's like strip mining. You just pull all that dirt out and just process it. Get a little work.

Ultimately, it's whatever works. Let me ask you a question.

Ultimately, it's whatever works. Let me ask you a question.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, but you roll your dice. You take your chances and you roll your dice no matter where you live.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, but you roll your dice. You take your chances and you roll your dice no matter where you live.

Well, they're not going to give you that computer in jail.

Well, they're not going to give you that computer in jail.

You're going to be forced to write it on pencil, and that's going to be an okay experience for you.

You're going to be forced to write it on pencil, and that's going to be an okay experience for you.

On Joe Rogan's show, I will have a cigar. He doesn't do anything fun.

On Joe Rogan's show, I will have a cigar. He doesn't do anything fun.

Really?

Really?

Well, maybe I should talk about this.

Well, maybe I should talk about this.

Maybe I should talk about it. Are we on? Can I go? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't do anything fun. Don't do anything fun. You know... Making movies is fun. Well, that's the fun... Where's the cutter?

Maybe I should talk about it. Are we on? Can I go? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't do anything fun. Don't do anything fun. You know... Making movies is fun. Well, that's the fun... Where's the cutter?

I don't do anything fun. Well, after what happened to me... I mean, I should probably tell the whole story and maybe I eventually will here, but... You know, I went to jail... for a DUI-related incident that caused manslaughter. And one of my passengers died. And, you know, after that and going to jail and whatnot... He's not the funnest guy to get drunk with.

I don't do anything fun. Well, after what happened to me... I mean, I should probably tell the whole story and maybe I eventually will here, but... You know, I went to jail... for a DUI-related incident that caused manslaughter. And one of my passengers died. And, you know, after that and going to jail and whatnot... He's not the funnest guy to get drunk with.

That's kind of what it is. I, you know, if I go to a party or something like that, I don't want to be seen holding a drink with, you know, even with water in it.

That's kind of what it is. I, you know, if I go to a party or something like that, I don't want to be seen holding a drink with, you know, even with water in it.

I also have a kind of it's kind of like an animal thing. I had a pig as a as a pet. And man, when you look at those eyes, those are human eyes there. And I looked into it and it looked into my I just I had chickens before that. And you know what it's like. Chickens are like cats. You know, they want back scratches and stuff. And I just couldn't like after a while, I just couldn't do it.

I also have a kind of it's kind of like an animal thing. I had a pig as a as a pet. And man, when you look at those eyes, those are human eyes there. And I looked into it and it looked into my I just I had chickens before that. And you know what it's like. Chickens are like cats. You know, they want back scratches and stuff. And I just couldn't like after a while, I just couldn't do it.

It's an intelligence test. I'm sorry, push it down.

It's an intelligence test. I'm sorry, push it down.

Wild pigs are wild pigs. I get it.

Wild pigs are wild pigs. I get it.

There are people who are like that also. Exactly. That's my point.

There are people who are like that also. Exactly. That's my point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the other part of it. That's the other part of it is I think there's a line in Highlander 2 where Sean Connery says, I don't eat anything that I cannot identify. Right. And I kind of feel like that as well. Like I don't have a lot of trust for large industrial systems of food. You shouldn't.

That's the other part of it. That's the other part of it is I think there's a line in Highlander 2 where Sean Connery says, I don't eat anything that I cannot identify. Right. And I kind of feel like that as well. Like I don't have a lot of trust for large industrial systems of food. You shouldn't.

I am not like one of these people who are like, oh.

I am not like one of these people who are like, oh.

never never like you know if i am in the right place in the right environment and the right uh food is is there like if there's a like if i'm in on an island in greece and the guy comes up from the boat with a basket of fish and which one would you like i'll take that one you know sure like uh do you at least eat eggs oh yeah yeah okay so you dig like they're going out of style

never never like you know if i am in the right place in the right environment and the right uh food is is there like if there's a like if i'm in on an island in greece and the guy comes up from the boat with a basket of fish and which one would you like i'll take that one you know sure like uh do you at least eat eggs oh yeah yeah okay so you dig like they're going out of style

There's nothing like eggs straight from a chicken. Oh, it's great.

There's nothing like eggs straight from a chicken. Oh, it's great.

You got to get a couple of them. They need to have a pecking order. Yes.

You got to get a couple of them. They need to have a pecking order. Yes.

I think Goebbels figured that one out.

I think Goebbels figured that one out.

Was he really? Oh, yeah. Oh, no shit. Chicken farmer. That's how he... worked out all of his policies in the camps. We shouldn't talk about that.

Was he really? Oh, yeah. Oh, no shit. Chicken farmer. That's how he... worked out all of his policies in the camps. We shouldn't talk about that.

You know, as far as writing in jail, I'm just thinking about it right now. One of the other things I had to contend with was they would confiscate anything that I wrote. Oh. So, you know, like once a week or once every two weeks or so. Why would they do that? Was it illegal to write? I was considered a security threat by what I was writing.

You know, as far as writing in jail, I'm just thinking about it right now. One of the other things I had to contend with was they would confiscate anything that I wrote. Oh. So, you know, like once a week or once every two weeks or so. Why would they do that? Was it illegal to write? I was considered a security threat by what I was writing.

Oh, because you were telling the truth about what was going on. That, and then when they sent me in, like I was placed in this like solitary confinement thing, like in the hole. And, you know, you're in there and like, I had never been in anything like that before in my life. I was thinking, this is like fucking Guantanamo, except it made me think about it. I've got due process at least.

Oh, because you were telling the truth about what was going on. That, and then when they sent me in, like I was placed in this like solitary confinement thing, like in the hole. And, you know, you're in there and like, I had never been in anything like that before in my life. I was thinking, this is like fucking Guantanamo, except it made me think about it. I've got due process at least.

And so I'm in this like crazy Kafkaesque mechanized totalitarian environment. You're in a room where you have no window and the lights are on 24-7. And, you know, I don't care what anybody says. You go into a room three days deprived of sound and the understanding of time, you go crazy after two days. You're insane. They broke me after two days. I was like, oh, I'll do some yoga. I'll meditate.

And so I'm in this like crazy Kafkaesque mechanized totalitarian environment. You're in a room where you have no window and the lights are on 24-7. And, you know, I don't care what anybody says. You go into a room three days deprived of sound and the understanding of time, you go crazy after two days. You're insane. They broke me after two days. I was like, oh, I'll do some yoga. I'll meditate.

No problem. No, after a while, if the lights are on 24-7 and you can't hear it, it's like being inside of a seashell. You go slowly nuts. Is that by design? No. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's by design. It's like you're placed into a and and so.

No problem. No, after a while, if the lights are on 24-7 and you can't hear it, it's like being inside of a seashell. You go slowly nuts. Is that by design? No. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's by design. It's like you're placed into a and and so.

About once a week, like when I was in population, about once a week, the middle of the night or the lights are down, and suddenly the lights come on bright. The lights are always on, but the lights come on bright, and suddenly a bunch of guards come rushing in through the doors.

About once a week, like when I was in population, about once a week, the middle of the night or the lights are down, and suddenly the lights come on bright. The lights are always on, but the lights come on bright, and suddenly a bunch of guards come rushing in through the doors.

They just storm into the tank, into the section, and they pull everybody out of their cells, and they strip everybody naked, and they put you up against a wall. So you're up there with, like, you know, Sancho. And, you know, Leroy and like everybody's suddenly you're all, you know, one moment you're being kept separate.

They just storm into the tank, into the section, and they pull everybody out of their cells, and they strip everybody naked, and they put you up against a wall. So you're up there with, like, you know, Sancho. And, you know, Leroy and like everybody's suddenly you're all, you know, one moment you're being kept separate.

I'm always the, I don't want to say the stupid guy, but I'm the guy who for some reason always decides I'm going to stay.

I'm always the, I don't want to say the stupid guy, but I'm the guy who for some reason always decides I'm going to stay.

And next thing you know, you're all naked together standing up against the wall and they're going through everybody's cell and they're just ripping your cell apart, looking for anything. And usually they're looking for tar heroin or a shank or a weapon of some kind or works or cell phones, anything like they're looking for anything that's considered contraband.

And next thing you know, you're all naked together standing up against the wall and they're going through everybody's cell and they're just ripping your cell apart, looking for anything. And usually they're looking for tar heroin or a shank or a weapon of some kind or works or cell phones, anything like they're looking for anything that's considered contraband.

Okay, for me, they were looking at my writing, because when I was in solitary at that time, like literally on kites, a kite is like a requisition form that you send out to the guards. You're not allowed to talk to the guards. They don't want to talk to you. You tell them what you want on a kite, and then you give them the kite, and then they take it off, and maybe it gets answered.

Okay, for me, they were looking at my writing, because when I was in solitary at that time, like literally on kites, a kite is like a requisition form that you send out to the guards. You're not allowed to talk to the guards. They don't want to talk to you. You tell them what you want on a kite, and then you give them the kite, and then they take it off, and maybe it gets answered.

I never had one answered in my life. And so... They come in, they strip everybody naked, they take all your clothes, and they're under the guise of we're doing a laundry exchange. And so everybody gets new clothes, and you end up with these big baggy pants or something too small for you. And they would...

I never had one answered in my life. And so... They come in, they strip everybody naked, they take all your clothes, and they're under the guise of we're doing a laundry exchange. And so everybody gets new clothes, and you end up with these big baggy pants or something too small for you. And they would...

look for contraband for everybody well with me they would look for whatever i was writing because when i was in solitary i was writing um you know like maps i would map the place like a fucking idiot like i still was uh you know i'm writing about oh eisenhard the guard i saw him watching you know uh uh like literally saw him watching on a little tv nazi propaganda like triumph of the will is playing on his tv and he's watching it oh i'm gonna write that down

look for contraband for everybody well with me they would look for whatever i was writing because when i was in solitary i was writing um you know like maps i would map the place like a fucking idiot like i still was uh you know i'm writing about oh eisenhard the guard i saw him watching you know uh uh like literally saw him watching on a little tv nazi propaganda like triumph of the will is playing on his tv and he's watching it oh i'm gonna write that down

I live near a fire department. There's a fire hydrant across from my driveway.

I live near a fire department. There's a fire hydrant across from my driveway.

So they didn't want me writing all my stuff. They were like, that guy is a fucking threat. You get whatever he's written. And so I noticed that whenever I was taken out of my cell to shower, to go to yard, to do whatever, that they would come in and just take whatever I had written. So I learned that they couldn't take or open books. Letters to my attorney. So because it's privileged.

So they didn't want me writing all my stuff. They were like, that guy is a fucking threat. You get whatever he's written. And so I noticed that whenever I was taken out of my cell to shower, to go to yard, to do whatever, that they would come in and just take whatever I had written. So I learned that they couldn't take or open books. Letters to my attorney. So because it's privileged.

And so what I would do is I would just write. And then whenever I had to leave my cell, like to go to yard or if they were raiding the cells and taking everybody out and looking for contraband, I would just quickly seal the envelope. My writing would go in. I always left it when I was working in the letter to my attorney.

And so what I would do is I would just write. And then whenever I had to leave my cell, like to go to yard or if they were raiding the cells and taking everybody out and looking for contraband, I would just quickly seal the envelope. My writing would go in. I always left it when I was working in the letter to my attorney.

And then as soon as they would rate it, I would just seal the envelope and then that would go out. Then he would send that letter to my daughter. who would then type up the pages that I was writing. So that's how I wrote several scripts was like that.

And then as soon as they would rate it, I would just seal the envelope and then that would go out. Then he would send that letter to my daughter. who would then type up the pages that I was writing. So that's how I wrote several scripts was like that.

Where did you publish it? I don't remember where I was reading it. Well, was it on Twitter? I had several things. Okay, so first of all, I was placed... I was sentenced to go to a low security, like a country club facility. I went to a low security facility. And I went in there and, you know, you have access to stuff. It's, you know, it's more like a camp almost. And you're there and you're...

Where did you publish it? I don't remember where I was reading it. Well, was it on Twitter? I had several things. Okay, so first of all, I was placed... I was sentenced to go to a low security, like a country club facility. I went to a low security facility. And I went in there and, you know, you have access to stuff. It's, you know, it's more like a camp almost. And you're there and you're...

Yeah, that's me. Like my family went away and I was like, well, they're going to close it out so we can't get back in. I'm just going to hang out here until I know that it's and, you know, at a certain point there was fire like cresting the the ridge. And I'm kind of watching it. I ran down to the fire department to see, you know, like, hey, guys, it's it's coming. It's I can see it from my house.

Yeah, that's me. Like my family went away and I was like, well, they're going to close it out so we can't get back in. I'm just going to hang out here until I know that it's and, you know, at a certain point there was fire like cresting the the ridge. And I'm kind of watching it. I ran down to the fire department to see, you know, like, hey, guys, it's it's coming. It's I can see it from my house.

incarcerated, but it's a light incarceration almost. And I had access to a cell phone. And so I started tweeting. And these were the early days of Twitter. And so I started tweeting, oh, they found tar heroin in Pudgy's cell. And they dragged him off. And oh, this happened over here. Oh, so-and-so shaked so-and-so. Oh, they've rolled up so-and-so and taken him away. I was tweeting this stuff.

incarcerated, but it's a light incarceration almost. And I had access to a cell phone. And so I started tweeting. And these were the early days of Twitter. And so I started tweeting, oh, they found tar heroin in Pudgy's cell. And they dragged him off. And oh, this happened over here. Oh, so-and-so shaked so-and-so. Oh, they've rolled up so-and-so and taken him away. I was tweeting this stuff.

And this is the early days of Twitter. And Roger Ebert, who was like at that time the biggest on Twitter, was following me. And he put me on blast. He suddenly decided that he would tell everybody. And all of a sudden, one day overnight, the story kind of went everywhere in the world. He put you on blast in a positive way? Well, he just told everybody that this is happening.

And this is the early days of Twitter. And Roger Ebert, who was like at that time the biggest on Twitter, was following me. And he put me on blast. He suddenly decided that he would tell everybody. And all of a sudden, one day overnight, the story kind of went everywhere in the world. He put you on blast in a positive way? Well, he just told everybody that this is happening.

Roger Avery, Academy Award winning writer, is tweeting from jail and tweeting from behind bars. At the time, now it's like nothing. People do it all the time. People like... Suge Knight's doing podcasts. I've got a friend who's one of those January 6th guys, and he sends me tweets all the time. You've got a friend who was a January 6th guy? Yeah, yeah.

Roger Avery, Academy Award winning writer, is tweeting from jail and tweeting from behind bars. At the time, now it's like nothing. People do it all the time. People like... Suge Knight's doing podcasts. I've got a friend who's one of those January 6th guys, and he sends me tweets all the time. You've got a friend who was a January 6th guy? Yeah, yeah.

You've got a friend who was a January 6th guy? Well, he's still there. He's like... Hundreds of days in jail without without any kind of without trial.

You've got a friend who was a January 6th guy? Well, he's still there. He's like... Hundreds of days in jail without without any kind of without trial.

I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, but like that's not how it's supposed to be. It's not how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to have a due process of some kind.

I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, but like that's not how it's supposed to be. It's not how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to have a due process of some kind.

Oh, I watched it live, and there was that guy, that Antifa guy, waving people in, moving them in. They were moving the blockade things. They were moving them out, and cops were waving people in.

Oh, I watched it live, and there was that guy, that Antifa guy, waving people in, moving them in. They were moving the blockade things. They were moving them out, and cops were waving people in.

And I want to know who that cop was who shot that woman.

And I want to know who that cop was who shot that woman.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, like everything, there's a lot of misinformation being given to us by the mainstream media.

Well, like everything, there's a lot of misinformation being given to us by the mainstream media.

And they're all there, like hanging out, eating sandwiches and like not even worried about it. They're like they kind of looked over at it. It's OK. It'll be fine. It'll just burn a little. Yeah, they get a little too blasé-blasé about fire. They're pretty blasé. By the way, my spec ops friend, he's like, fuck those firemen, man. Fuck them. They get so much credit for nothing.

And they're all there, like hanging out, eating sandwiches and like not even worried about it. They're like they kind of looked over at it. It's OK. It'll be fine. It'll just burn a little. Yeah, they get a little too blasé-blasé about fire. They're pretty blasé. By the way, my spec ops friend, he's like, fuck those firemen, man. Fuck them. They get so much credit for nothing.

Because nobody was doing an insurrection. It wasn't an insurrection.

Because nobody was doing an insurrection. It wasn't an insurrection.

There was no presumption that there was going to be any kind of like that you were going to get thrown in jail for a thousand days. And so my pal Jake Lang, he's been there forever. And every now and then I get a picture of him. He's been in like, look, I deserve to go to jail. That guy doesn't. And most of those guys don't.

There was no presumption that there was going to be any kind of like that you were going to get thrown in jail for a thousand days. And so my pal Jake Lang, he's been there forever. And every now and then I get a picture of him. He's been in like, look, I deserve to go to jail. That guy doesn't. And most of those guys don't.

People had been smashing things for a whole year before that.

People had been smashing things for a whole year before that.

There comes a point when men of good conscience must stand up and speak out against things that are obviously wrong.

There comes a point when men of good conscience must stand up and speak out against things that are obviously wrong.

And that is one of them, I think.

And that is one of them, I think.

They should at least be going to trial. Yes. You should at least be going to trial. It is unconscionable to hold somebody for over a year, two years.

They should at least be going to trial. Yes. You should at least be going to trial. It is unconscionable to hold somebody for over a year, two years.

Yeah. And well, you know. And so he, you know, we got to know each other because of our mutual friend. And I think what happened was he and a couple of the other guys, you know, they were placed on me as like for surveillance purposes, like, you know. find out what this Avery guy's about maybe, or just keep an eye on him or whatever.

Yeah. And well, you know. And so he, you know, we got to know each other because of our mutual friend. And I think what happened was he and a couple of the other guys, you know, they were placed on me as like for surveillance purposes, like, you know. find out what this Avery guy's about maybe, or just keep an eye on him or whatever.

Right.

Right.

They barely do anything. They're on these incredible pension plans.

They barely do anything. They're on these incredible pension plans.

It's a crazy fucking story.

It's a crazy fucking story.

You know, when I was in jail, I found out they record everything. They're just constantly recording. And so somebody's in there and they're like, man, I'd like to kill that DA. Well, that's conspiracy. And so they'll wait and like, oh, you're about to get out. And they'll literally start walking by like, ah, stop.

You know, when I was in jail, I found out they record everything. They're just constantly recording. And so somebody's in there and they're like, man, I'd like to kill that DA. Well, that's conspiracy. And so they'll wait and like, oh, you're about to get out. And they'll literally start walking by like, ah, stop.

Remember that thing you said about conspiracy? Let's play that back for you. Oh, God. Or what you said about killing the DA. Well, that's you're going away again. You're going back to trial. Oh. That happened a lot. But it's also- Don't ever talk.

Remember that thing you said about conspiracy? Let's play that back for you. Oh, God. Or what you said about killing the DA. Well, that's you're going away again. You're going back to trial. Oh. That happened a lot. But it's also- Don't ever talk.

Oh, yeah. That happened right away. That happened right away. They're trying to get you to incriminate yourself deeper constantly. It's like a fun game.

Oh, yeah. That happened right away. That happened right away. They're trying to get you to incriminate yourself deeper constantly. It's like a fun game.

Well, as Quentin will confirm, I have my authority issues. I always have. I'm suspicious of anyone in power. You should be. It's intoxicating.

Well, as Quentin will confirm, I have my authority issues. I always have. I'm suspicious of anyone in power. You should be. It's intoxicating.

The show we're talking about is the Video Archives podcast, which is Patreon.com slash Video Archives.

The show we're talking about is the Video Archives podcast, which is Patreon.com slash Video Archives.

Part of it is the experience of being together and watching the movie together, watching it through his eyes.

Part of it is the experience of being together and watching the movie together, watching it through his eyes.

During the pandemic.

During the pandemic.

Well, he used to actually hump it into another country and kill somebody.

Well, he used to actually hump it into another country and kill somebody.

Not only that, like the old days of television, like Desilu, we own our content, like you own your content. Yeah. Never mind that it's a podcast. I'm OK with that. I like the fact that this is something where for the first time in my life, at least, I'm involved with something where there is nobody else. It's me and Quentin who decide everything.

Not only that, like the old days of television, like Desilu, we own our content, like you own your content. Yeah. Never mind that it's a podcast. I'm OK with that. I like the fact that this is something where for the first time in my life, at least, I'm involved with something where there is nobody else. It's me and Quentin who decide everything.

And, you know, if Quentin wants to do it, we go there. If I want to do it, we go there. Well, I talked to Quentin. If Quentin allows it, we go there. Yeah. I mean, basically what we're doing is the same thing we used to do. That's true. At the video store. We do what we used to do at the video store. We're talking about movies.

And, you know, if Quentin wants to do it, we go there. If I want to do it, we go there. Well, I talked to Quentin. If Quentin allows it, we go there. Yeah. I mean, basically what we're doing is the same thing we used to do. That's true. At the video store. We do what we used to do at the video store. We're talking about movies.

But you know what?

But you know what?

Most times when you've used the kill switch, you've used it on your own.

Most times when you've used the kill switch, you've used it on your own.

You used it on yourself. You actually haven't used it on any of my things that I've wanted to do, which is really cool. But basically, we're doing the same thing we used to do. We used to sit around and talk about movies. And so during the pandemic, you know, Quentin called me up. And we hadn't talked for, I mean, we had bumped into each other.

You used it on yourself. You actually haven't used it on any of my things that I've wanted to do, which is really cool. But basically, we're doing the same thing we used to do. We used to sit around and talk about movies. And so during the pandemic, you know, Quentin called me up. And we hadn't talked for, I mean, we had bumped into each other.

But we hadn't really... We had had a little bit of a... We had a falling out. We had a falling out. And I call it sort of a business-related falling out. And maybe if I had been a little more mature... I was young as a filmmaker and probably unprepared to deal with the complexities of agents and attorneys and Hollywood and money and fame and the press and the press's agenda and all of that.

But we hadn't really... We had had a little bit of a... We had a falling out. We had a falling out. And I call it sort of a business-related falling out. And maybe if I had been a little more mature... I was young as a filmmaker and probably unprepared to deal with the complexities of agents and attorneys and Hollywood and money and fame and the press and the press's agenda and all of that.

Fuck those pussies! These huge pensions, and everybody thinks they're heroes. They're not heroes!

Fuck those pussies! These huge pensions, and everybody thinks they're heroes. They're not heroes!

I was just approaching it like I'm a... SoCal gen X punk filmmaker. That was how I approached it. I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want to do. I'm going to make the movie that I want to make. And I, with that attitude of, you know, I know what I want and I know what's right. And nobody can tell me I'm wrong. Cause you have to be a little bit of a megalomaniac to be a director.

I was just approaching it like I'm a... SoCal gen X punk filmmaker. That was how I approached it. I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want to do. I'm going to make the movie that I want to make. And I, with that attitude of, you know, I know what I want and I know what's right. And nobody can tell me I'm wrong. Cause you have to be a little bit of a megalomaniac to be a director.

You have to be willing to say, no, I'm right. Even when everyone is telling you you're wrong. And, um, is that how Joker two got made?

You have to be willing to say, no, I'm right. Even when everyone is telling you you're wrong. And, um, is that how Joker two got made?

I'll defend the movie as well.

I'll defend the movie as well.

Well, that may have colored his perception, though.

Well, that may have colored his perception, though.

I like ranting. Oh, yeah, clearly.

I like ranting. Oh, yeah, clearly.

It's not murder if it's sanctioned by your own country.

It's not murder if it's sanctioned by your own country.

Do you remember when Vincent Gallo wished testicular cancer on Roger Ebert, and then he got it?

Do you remember when Vincent Gallo wished testicular cancer on Roger Ebert, and then he got it?

Now that you bring it up, yeah. Right?

Now that you bring it up, yeah. Right?

That was Vincent Gallo cursing it onto him. Oh, voodoo's real. He apologized after he, oh, my God, I didn't, I think he got it.

That was Vincent Gallo cursing it onto him. Oh, voodoo's real. He apologized after he, oh, my God, I didn't, I think he got it.

What a cool loophole. Yeah, isn't it?

What a cool loophole. Yeah, isn't it?

That's exactly what happened. And then he went and he cursed him. And then the curse came true. And then he regretted it. I talked to him. He was like, I wish I had never done that.

That's exactly what happened. And then he went and he cursed him. And then the curse came true. And then he regretted it. I talked to him. He was like, I wish I had never done that.

Yeah. Well, Stallone did Italian Stallion.

Yeah. Well, Stallone did Italian Stallion.

Not like how Travis Bickle does it.

Not like how Travis Bickle does it.

I think it's actually gone too far. I think, I mean, this could be for me. Well, it's not that violence has gone too far. It's the meaningless violence has gone violence without purpose almost. And I started to recognize this during walking dead, but really game of Thrones. So you mentioned game of Thrones and,

I think it's actually gone too far. I think, I mean, this could be for me. Well, it's not that violence has gone too far. It's the meaningless violence has gone violence without purpose almost. And I started to recognize this during walking dead, but really game of Thrones. So you mentioned game of Thrones and,

Like, I loved Game of Thrones at first, and then I started realizing, wait a minute, like, they're getting off on me falling in love with characters, and then the moment I've fallen in love with a character, suddenly they're vivisecting their genitals. You know, it's like... And then the cycle begins again. You fall in love with a different character. And then they're killing them.

Like, I loved Game of Thrones at first, and then I started realizing, wait a minute, like, they're getting off on me falling in love with characters, and then the moment I've fallen in love with a character, suddenly they're vivisecting their genitals. You know, it's like... And then the cycle begins again. You fall in love with a different character. And then they're killing them.

And they're just doing it sadistically because there's nowhere to go other than that. They're just pushing the ceiling higher and higher.

And they're just doing it sadistically because there's nowhere to go other than that. They're just pushing the ceiling higher and higher.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Well, the difference is that that's episodic.

Well, the difference is that that's episodic.

Well, it's episodic. And television now has become completely serialized.

Well, it's episodic. And television now has become completely serialized.

And so, you know, somebody's going in and they're pitching their show, even a really, really good show like Deadwood. Okay, Deadwood, I know what they, they probably went in, they pitched, and what they knew that they were going to make was the, was it Wild Bill? Yeah. The Wild Bill story. And they've got Carradine and like, and they know that story.

And so, you know, somebody's going in and they're pitching their show, even a really, really good show like Deadwood. Okay, Deadwood, I know what they, they probably went in, they pitched, and what they knew that they were going to make was the, was it Wild Bill? Yeah. The Wild Bill story. And they've got Carradine and like, and they know that story.

And that show is fantastic as long as they're telling that story, which is like six to eight episodes. Mm-hmm. Once he's gone, I don't think they had a plan.

And that show is fantastic as long as they're telling that story, which is like six to eight episodes. Mm-hmm. Once he's gone, I don't think they had a plan.

They that was what they pitched. And it was like they pitched a movie spread out over a number of episodes.

They that was what they pitched. And it was like they pitched a movie spread out over a number of episodes.

But I would maintain that for the rest of Deadwood, after Carradine's gone, it's just things are happening. Stuff is happening. But I don't remember anything about that show other than the town and, you know, the various actors that I liked on the show. But really, all they had was those first six to eight episodes. I can't remember exactly what it was.

But I would maintain that for the rest of Deadwood, after Carradine's gone, it's just things are happening. Stuff is happening. But I don't remember anything about that show other than the town and, you know, the various actors that I liked on the show. But really, all they had was those first six to eight episodes. I can't remember exactly what it was.

Those are actually the scariest ones to watch, because if you loved something when you were young, it's almost.

Those are actually the scariest ones to watch, because if you loved something when you were young, it's almost.

Well, actually, I can jump in really quick if you want.

Well, actually, I can jump in really quick if you want.

Strong cigars. Yeah, strong cigars. One of the movies we saw that we had seen a million times and we didn't even think that it was going to be anything was Dressed to Kill. Yeah.

Strong cigars. Yeah, strong cigars. One of the movies we saw that we had seen a million times and we didn't even think that it was going to be anything was Dressed to Kill. Yeah.

We had a little congress about it.

We had a little congress about it.

Literally, the tape that we used to rent and handle and shuffle and put back and forth into the drawers and then rent to customers and that has been sitting on the shelves with the number on it and everything for the computer.

Literally, the tape that we used to rent and handle and shuffle and put back and forth into the drawers and then rent to customers and that has been sitting on the shelves with the number on it and everything for the computer.

And we saw things in it that we had never seen before. That was the other thing. It's like I saw things during that screening because of... because of feeling watching the movie with you guys that I had never thought about before. And so it opened up all sorts of avenues and, you know, Most frequently you watch a movie and it doesn't live up. I'm afraid to watch movies again a lot of the time.

And we saw things in it that we had never seen before. That was the other thing. It's like I saw things during that screening because of... because of feeling watching the movie with you guys that I had never thought about before. And so it opened up all sorts of avenues and, you know, Most frequently you watch a movie and it doesn't live up. I'm afraid to watch movies again a lot of the time.

That was just one of those happy incidences where the movie really lived up. It stayed strong. Even when we'd seen it hundreds of times.

That was just one of those happy incidences where the movie really lived up. It stayed strong. Even when we'd seen it hundreds of times.

They will come. Build it, build it, build it, and they will come. But what I love about the way we're doing it now, because our first season, we just, you know, we just put it out. And we had a partner with SiriusXM back then. And this season, you know.

They will come. Build it, build it, build it, and they will come. But what I love about the way we're doing it now, because our first season, we just, you know, we just put it out. And we had a partner with SiriusXM back then. And this season, you know.

Yeah.