Rory Stewart

That's a very interesting framing.

In this thing, maybe people begin to feel that Starmer's a bit of a Chamberlain and John Healy's a bit of a Churchill.

He's kind of saying, here's this big threat from Russia.

We need to rearm.

You're not rearming.

And he becomes the great thundering voice on the back benches, calling for a totally different strategy.

Well, we've got David F. Murphy.

Does Healy's principled resignation put him in prime position to be Labour's John Swinney?

John Swinney being, of course, the leader of the SNP, Scottish leader who came in after Nicola Sturgeon, who sort of looks a little bit like John Healy from a distance.

So there's a bit of a similar feeling to the two men, isn't there?

Could he be the steady elder statesman who takes over to stop the bleeding?

So anyway, I just thank you, everybody who's getting involved, because these are really interesting sort of historical comparisons, national comparisons.

What do you think about Healy as the John Swinney of the Labour Party?

There is a bit of John Swinney about him, isn't there?

There is, yeah.

That's very loyal.

I don't like that.

Yeah, and somebody else... Sorry, we're not going to be dragged into this kind of stuff.

There's also... Let's get back to the biggest use.

Let me finish you with a final thing.