Rory Stewart

We've increasingly outsourced our sovereignty to international institutions.

So that's one big important American claim, which is an idea in the MAGA movement of the Republicans that the things that America created since 1945, the UN, NATO,

are actually impacts on US sovereignty.

They don't give it its full freedom.

What is he saying the world should have done at that point?

Well, so this is exactly the fight, right?

The agreement after the Second World War was that peace...

prosperity was going to come from America, yes, slightly pooling its sovereignty, accepting rules that apply to America as much as to other people.

That's the problem with international institutions.

The rules apply to you as well as to other people, right?

And what America got from that is incredible influence, power, and parallel prosperity because it was able to use that system

to build coalitions and allies and broadly push the world in its direction.

But if you go for a purist view, and of course Brexit's partly about this too, where you say we're not going to make any compromises at all on our ability to do whatever we want, whenever we want, anywhere in the world, then logically, of course, you do end up where Rubio is, just to go on from that.

So we outsourced our sovereignty to international institutions, invested too much in massive welfare states at the cost of defending ourselves, imposed energy policies on ourselves that are impoverishing our people,

oil and coal and natural gas, and let in an unprecedented wave of mass migration.

Civilization, the balance of history,

led to the shutting of our plants.

So he's going on essentially his story, and he uses the Fukuyama world, the end of history, that basically everything that's wrong in the world came from the liberal global order.

Globalization destroyed jobs, made us weaker, welfare states impoverished us, the UN... Which, by the way, until he became Secretary of State to Donald Trump, he did not believe.

And why do you think the Europeans were so cheered up by it?