Rory Stewart

And he's somebody who, as you say, hasn't been briefing the press, hasn't been doing what traditionally, if you were...

Gavin Williamson or Grant Shapps or Liz Truss leading up to a resignation.

You would have been taking Tim Shipman out for lunch and the Sunday Times or the Spectator would have been running stories for weeks.

He's on the verge of resignation.

That's one of the reasons, I guess, why your colleagues are surprised because actually in modern politics,

they expect to be able to read in the pages of the Spectator or the Sunday Times who's going to resign.

And they're very confused if somebody resigns who hasn't been.

Presumably, though, he's odds on.

if either of them gets sent to be back in as defence secretary or foreign secretary.

I mean, it's not a foolish move, right?

Just on that one, help me understand.

I would say that your analysis makes sense for a normal prime minister who's in for the long run.

But if you're somebody who basically is not going to be prime minister in two, three months' time,

I mean, how much more damage can he take?

Does losing his defense secretary make much difference if in a week's time Andy Burnham's going to be running against him?

So maybe he just thinks, yeah, this would be pretty damaging if I was going to be the prime minister and take the next election.

But really, I'm not really the prime minister anymore.

And I'm buggered if I'm going to be patronized by John Healy and he can go.

I think most listeners don't quite get that.

You think that he thinks Andy Burnham won't win a McAfield, or if Andy Burnham challenges him in the autumn, he won't be defeated.