Ross Douthat

Okay.

Let's talk then about risks, about the guns.

Yes.

Right?

When you give me, when you give a hypothetical person a training, how much time do you spend telling them what not to do?

But he did something physical.

Can we just talk for a minute about the specifics of the Rene Good shooting?

Yes.

I'm very confident that you think the shooting was unjustified and wrong.

I'm curious what, as someone who trains activists, trains people for observation at least, what

you see when you watch the video and watch what she was doing and what her partner was doing.

Because to me, just watching it, it just seems like there's a sense that neither of them had a clear sense of the gravity of the situation that they were in.

I don't think that based on what I've seen,

she was trying to run over the ICE officer.

I do think she was trying to drive away, peel away from law enforcement.

And there's this moment where her partner is telling her, drive, drive.

And all I can think watching it is someone should have told her that this is a very serious situation.

You're dealing with armed officers of the state who

involved in some kind of ongoing operation, and you want to behave as if it is a dangerous situation.

So I'm curious what your reaction is to what you saw in those videos.