Ross Douthat

Do you think that that is a perspective that, you know, public health authorities should be salesmen for?

Should it be possible to say, yes, you know, we're not suppressing speech, we're not suppressing vaccine critics, but we are going to sell this vaccine to 57-year-old Americans if it seems to work for them?

But if that is the sin, I'm just curious how you think we get out of the trap where the sin of the public health authorities –

leads to this larger discrediting, which leads to people, for understandable reasons, having their own set of false beliefs.

I just want to make sure people understand.

Okay.

So you are in charge of the NIH.

The NIH is obviously in charge of scientific research, funding scientific research, right?

Which is just distinct in some ways from some of the kind of public health interventions that we've been talking about.

But what does a reform agenda at the NIH look like?

What are you actually trying to do?

So that means that you're trying effectively to do research into the cost structure.

Yeah.

Do you feel like the NIH has not been doing enough research into—

cost issues as opposed to discovery issues?

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what you think is wrong with the existing system.

So in terms of, like, the practical side of medical bureaucracy...

What orders do you give to NIH bureaucrats to make people interested in someone doing research in off-label drugs or something?

I mean, that's the freedom I've given them.

Let's use diabetes as a bridge to chronic illness, because this is something obviously that...