Ross Karl

He came in at Waikato as a 13 and then moved into 12 because that's where opportunities presented with Anton Bennett-Brown at the Chiefs.

So, yeah, I just stick to 13s.

Straight out-and-out 13s.

Naturally, you're going to look at your options because you'll feel now there's an extra body that's blocking your pathway of that opportunity.

But in saying that,

The old adage is like, super rugby, it's not a development, I suppose, competition.

The All Blacks isn't a development competition.

So perseverance and sacrifice and being willing to just wait for that opportunity is a big part of it as well.

And it's not a place where you can have half a foot in, half a foot out.

So I think if players are...

looking to do that and not wanting to fight for that position, then you probably learn a lot in that space as well.

So I think it's a yes to both.

I think there'll be personalities that are like, nah, I'm going to prove this wrong.

But I think there'll also be personalities like, hey man, I've been plugging away

for a bit and the Crusaders is a factory of loose forwards and whether it's going overseas, I'm not sure.

It just might be moving Super Rugby franchises to create that opportunity.

Because they're too good.

We've mentioned Corey Callow a lot.

Because he's the easiest example, even a Johnny Lee at the Crusaders.

But I mean, they are steeped in history of wanting to fight.